What’s Next for the U.S. Plastics Pact? | Crystal Bayliss

In this episode, Cory Connors sits down with Crystal Bayliss, Executive Director of the U.S. Plastics Pact, to unpack a pivotal year for the organization. Crystal shares how a sustainability sign on an office water cooler sparked her personal journey from food and ingredient procurement into packaging sustainability, and how that path led her to the Pact — first as a member representative, then as a program manager, and eventually to the organization's top leadership role. Cory and Crystal dig into the departure of major member companies ahead of the 2025 targets, why the original goals were always meant to be a "blank sheet of paper" starting point, and what comes next as the Pact rolls out new, more flexible ways for companies to engage. The conversation also covers the recent leadership transition at the Pact, the case for voluntary industry action paving the way for smart regulation, and the newly released Film & Flex Circularity framework tackling one of packaging's most contentious materials.

Key Topics Discussed:

• Crystal's path from procurement into plastics sustainability and up through the U.S. Plastics Pact
• Why major brands (Walmart, Mars, Mondelez, Nestlé) stepped back from the Pact ahead of the 2025 deadline
• The reality behind the 2025 targets: only ~50% of packaging reusable/recyclable/compostable and 11% recycled/bio-based content achieved, against 100% and 30% goals
• New, more flexible engagement tiers coming soon for Pact members with narrower packaging portfolios
• The recent CEO transition and Crystal's move from Director of Strategy & Engagement to Interim CEO to Executive Director
• Voluntary industry action vs. mandatory regulation, and how the Food Safety Modernization Act offers a precedent
• California's SB 54 and the Pact's role advising policymakers
• The new "Journey to Film & Flex Circularity" framework and the unique challenges of flexible film packaging
• Atlantic Packaging's circular stretch film recycling system in North Carolina
• What gives Crystal hope for the future of sustainable packaging amid regulatory uncertainty

Resources Mentioned:

• U.S. Plastics Pact
• Journey to Film & Flex Circularity: A Framework of Necessary Design, Collection, and End Market Levers
• California SB 54, Plastic Pollution Prevention and Packaging Producer Responsibility Act
• FDA Food Safety Modernization Act
• Ellen MacArthur Foundation's New Plastics Economy Initiative

Contact:

Listeners interested in learning more about the U.S. Plastics Pact or its upcoming membership options can visit usplasticspact.org.

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Transcript

0:06

Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors, presented by Atlantic Packaging. I'm your host, Cory Connors. In today's episode, I connected with the Executive Director of the U.S. Plastics Pact, Crystal Bayliss We have a really insightful talk about the challenges and some great things happening at the U.S. Plastics Pact and beyond. I'd also like to thank 3M, Specright and Forest Packaging for being our sponsors. Crystal, thank you so much for being on. Welcome to the show. Really excited to have you on again. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Well, let's talk about your background. How what got you into packaging? What got you into sustainability? Tell us a little bit about you and your your story. Yeah. Well, my background is procurement. so I had 15 years in supply chain with most of that being in the procurement And I was actually started out with buying food and ingredients, but there was a team at my old company that put some sustainability signs around the office, most notably on the water cooler where it said how many cups you would use over the course of your career if you used a disposable cup every And I looked at that sign every day for weeks and was like,~ I'm using multiple cups today between my coffee cup and my water cup. And so eventually I decided to go buy a reusable coffee mug and a water bottle. And that was sort of my first endeavor into personal ~ sustainability. And then I moved from the food and ingredient side to packaging. And so when I started to see how much packaging was created on a given day. And I realized a lot of that was going to landfill it because of that water cooler sign it added up in my in my brain. And I was like, my goodness, I need to do something here. So I got involved in sustainability at the corporate level. And the company that I worked for joined the US Plastics Pact, which I loved because it was an opportunity to bring the full value chain to talk about these challenging issues. Being in procurement, I was constantly talking to suppliers about what I could do to make my packaging more sustainable. And I heard very different things depending on who I was talking to, which was frustrating for me trying to understand it. And so I love the idea of an organization that brought together the full value chain and thought about all the parts that needed to come together to make a circular system. And so then I served as a representative for that company to the pact. And then when they had a position post, I I applied and I got it and I started out as a program manager and then just sort of worked my way up. Well, congratulations again on your your rise to the top of the ~ the organization. Well deserved. You and I worked together f several years ago and we did some podcasts and I got to speak with you at an event and I just had so much fun and really ~ when I heard the news I was so excited for you and proud of you. So well done. Thank you. well deserved. Well let's let's talk a little bit about the US Plastics Pact and kind of the elephant in the room. So there's there's ~ been some kind of tough times. You've in inherited maybe a a challenge in some ways. companies like Walmart, Mars, Mondelez, Nestle have all departed the US Plastics Pact in the in the in this last year, right before those 2025 targets came due. Everyone was had these big goals. They were gonna, you know, here's we're gonna report these things. And so a lot of these corporations just said, we're gonna kind of push this off a little bit.~ were those companies leaving because the targets were too hard or because the accountability wasn't strong enough? Something else? What's what's your real assessment of what happened there? Yeah, it's a really good question. And I think it's important to note that it's not just one thing. And I can't I can't speak for individual companies themselves, but I certainly can talk to some of the trends that we're seeing that I think are important for folks to understand for general sustainability overall. And so if we go way back to when the plastics pact started, those targets were set up because we needed a starting point. Like we were starting with like a blank piece of paper. What are we gonna do? And what was really important was that there were measurable targets in each area in terms of design, collection, and end markets. And what that signaled was that you needed to be making progress in all areas because we're trying to stand up a system. And so you can't just redesign packaging. You can't just try to collect it, you know, et cetera. and unfortunately, I think the targets have taken on a little bit of a life of their own, which we're working to correct that narrative. But the key thing is that you've got to have the system come together and you need to be doing work in all areas. Well, As we hit 2025, it wasn't just that was when when the initial roadmap ended and a lot of folks' individual sustainability commitments came due. That certainly was a huge factor and w we knew in advance that not everyone was going to hit their targets. There were probably going to be significant gaps and we were anticipating shift. But in addition to that, there's been quite a bit of quite a bit of change from a a legal landscape in terms of where policy is at. There's been significant political shifts on a global level. There's been a lot of economic uncertainty, and all of these things combine in a way that companies are having to navigate themselves. And so you've seen different things happen. one notable difference is that many companies, because of emerging policy risk, have really doubled down on fewer initiatives. And certainly we see increased commitment from some of our activators on that front. we also have typically A lot of most engaged activators have really complex packaging portfolios we're thinking about all the things, reduction, reuse, recycling, design, all of that. and so it's a great space for folks who have really complex portfolios. For some of the folks that have left and I continue conversations with, like they'd love to be involved, but it maybe doesn't make sense to be involved in all the areas. And so one thing that I'm excited to announce in the very near future is that we'll have opportunities for folks to engage on more of a limited basis. So if you're only only have this type of a packaging portfolio. It may not make sense to be engaged in all of our work, but it makes sense to be over here. And so I I don't feel as though ~ you know, like I think there's just broader shifts that have happened and our North Star is saying the same, but we need to offer some different opportunities to engage. And so we'll be excited to announce those soon. It may may even be done be by the time that this podcast releases. Very exciting. And well said. And I I hadn't thought about it as a, you know, we didn't companies didn't really know what to where to set their Yeah. And where, you know, I love that blank sheet of paper idea. It's exactly right. What you know, this isn't this is new. We hadn't reported these numbers before as a as a you know company, ~ you know, and as a total group of ~ you know cpgs and p sustainability focused organizations so i think that's really insightful well said the 2025 targets i think were kind of a big ~ letdown for a lot of people by 2023 only half of the plastic packaging introduced to the market by member companies was reusable recyclable or compostable And just eleven percent of materials used were recycled or bio based, far from the hundred percent and thirty percent goals that were set. Why was there such a wide gap? I know this is before you were the leader of this organization, but I'd like to just you're one of the top experts in this space and I'd love to to know your wisdom. Thank you. I think it goes back to a little bit of that blank sheet of paper. And I think there was an intention set of this is where we need to get. Certainly for the sake of our planet, we need things to be designed correctly. We need to surpass 50% recycling rate. Like that's not that's not the total finish line. And we need to use more recycled content even than 30%. Those were just a a first take at where do we think we can get with like an estimate for the timeline. And plastics packages and Packaging is an incredibly complex system. Like you're essentially creating a new supply chain to be able to design have them work in the initial intended use, get them collected and reused, recycled, or composted, and then like bring them back again to be used in new packaging again. And that is so incredibly complex. Even more so than something like, say, the climate space, where companies basically make decisions for their own internal operations. Like here you have to coordinate across the full value chain. And it's just, I think, more complex than anyone would have ever imagined. we need investment, we need innovation, we need policy, all of those things come along at different rates. And so I think the the targets were always we all knew that they were ambitious. It was going to be a challenge to meet them, but as you move along, it's like, okay, this is gonna take longer because these other things that we hadn't even thought about need to fall into place in order to make progress and to be able to bring that system together. It's it seems like it's a case of we didn't know what we didn't know. And Yes.~ we we couldn't we were kind of really just taking an educated guess at a lot of these things. Like, well this sounds like a reasonable target or this sounds like a good idea. W let's shoot for that, you know. I guess I kind of equate it to a a weight loss journey, like I'd like to lose twenty pounds, Yes. but ten's ten's pretty good too, you know, for for now.~ and I think that's a lot of companies are looking at this a in a challenging challenging way and seeing what it really takes to do the work and how how difficult it is to implement EPR ~ you know goals and things like that ~ in the real world. You know, we can talk about it till we're blue in the face. But I think and that's why it's the US Plastics Pact in my opinion, is so important is you need to come together as a group and work together and This worked for us, this didn't didn't work for us, learn from each other. That's what it makes it so valuable. Does that sound good to you? Very much so. And I think back to my procurement days, we never launched an innovation without talking to our suppliers. You had to talk to the suppliers of all of the materials, you had to talk to the equipment suppliers, you had to talk to quality, like there were all of these things that had to come together to launch a new project. And in the same way, like if you're standing up a circular system, like you can't just do it without talking to other parts in that value chain, because if it doesn't, if it works for you, but it doesn't work for them, it's not going to be efficient. It's not therefore gonna be environmentally or economically And I think that's a a key value of the US Plastics Pact is bringing those folks together to have the conversations and have real holistic thought into what will work in designing that system. And then I think just one more note on the the targets. It it's sometimes a little challenging to talk about this because I don't want to be like, they were hard, you know, that was unreal realistic. Like, let's just push them out. And that's not at all what I'm saying. In many ways, I see companies that have identified new things that they're digging into, certainly. you know, topics around like microplastics and chemicals and things like that have all now come into the to fold as well to discuss. And so I think there's still a ton of work happening and to stand up in that system, but it is again, it's more complex. And those initial targets were not where we should be stopping anyway. Like the the goalpost is really like when you've achieved a circular economy and you have, you know, like the correct design, you have much higher recycling rates, those end market end markets, etc. and so we're not stopping, we're just having to pivot a little bit, but like the north star is still the same. That's great. I I like to think like that too. And I agree with you totally that we need to continue to move forward no matter what the challenges are and work together on it. And I think that's that's so important. So well said. We've had a recent leadership change there at the US Plastics The year old CEO left just after about a year and a half. can you talk us through that transition? I know that was challenging. You took over c interim CEO, which was I was very impressed by, and then congratulations on being named executive director. Thank you. Yeah, leadership transitions, they happen at every organization and and it can be particularly challenging when you're a small organization, like we're less than 10 people, and so anytime there's a staff change, it's pretty significant. But we have a very strong team. And I think what's important to understand too is that the US Pack staff, they're not the ones that are doing the work all on our own. It's the activators that are engaged that help develop those guidance documents. And frameworks. we have an advisory council, we have a board of directors, and those are groups are very much engaged as well in helping lead the pact. And so this has never been like a one person show. It's always been a group of people all all working together on these things.~ and then as far as myself, like I've been around for about five years between being an activator and then working for the pact. And so from that standpoint, I was I was director of strategy engagement. prior to this role. So I was running a lot of the strategy for the organization in terms of the work streams and the projects and things like So in some ways I'm old news. and it just is a natural fit to slide over. Well, it made perfect sense to me. I was so excited for you and and frankly proud of you for what you're doing and what you've done. And ~ I know w we've been friends for a long time, but I wanted to just commend you for all your hard work and what Thank you. I think I see a very, very bright future for the US Plaxes Pact. And I think that ~ you'll get a lot of those members will come back and that that you you'll have some some really great things to report in the next few years. So we'll have to do this again ~ after that. Yes. Definitely. Definitely. Well, let's talk a little bit about ~ voluntary versus mandatory you know, those kinds of critics argue that voluntary industry coalitions simply don't when when deadlines get close because people can just leave. But do you do does it feel like to you that that these ~ organizations should be more mandatory, maybe part of an EPR strategy? g nationally and globally. Well, I think it's important to note that volunt like our organization and the idea of voluntary commitments, there was never meant to be the end all be all. We absolutely support regulation.~ we believe it's essential because you, you know, ultimately like you just need that certainty for companies in terms of investment and innovation and things like that. and certainly not everyone is gonna do things without you know it being So we absolutely support regulation. I think what's important to understand is that voluntary initiatives can lead to better policy. And so we're standing up like a circular system. It's like an entire supply chain. The average legislator does not know how to recycle a bottle or how to collect And so you wouldn't necessarily want people that aren't experts in that space to just try to make it up. And I think as I mentioned before, I was in ~ procurement on the materials side before moving to packaging. And I was there when the Food Safety Modernization Act got passed. And that was a huge like landmark bill that gave I put a lot of requirements in place for companies in terms of traceability. It gave the FDA the power to issue a recall. It was very monumental and important. It was incredibly challenging at the time, but the industry is better for it. And what not everyone knows about the Food Safety Modernization Act is that it was following actions of individual companies where they started putting processes in place saying, like, hey, these recalls aren't Okay, consumer safety is paramount. And so they began to develop the processes and then this law launched from the learnings of these individual actions of companies. And I think that same thing is happening here where we can come together and lay out a framework of what we kn know will work. And then that can form the basis for effective legislation. Exactly. And that's how it should be, I think. We ~ you know, these organizations like yours,~ private industry, works with the government, works with the the leadership in in, you know, government agencies and says, Hey, this could work, don't do that. You know, I Yeah. I know Wes Carter, our president, is on the board for S B fifty four in California, and he's the only packaging person on that board. And it's like Why? You know, there you know, why isn't why aren't there more? so thankfully Yeah. we have him and ~ you know ~ our team really working hard to kind of not explain things, but to say, hey, w this might be a good option instead of that. And I think that's really important for the future of sustainable packaging you don't want to do something that's that industry can't do, you know. ~ Right. it's the old story of the CEO that says We're not going to use plastic packaging anymore. And then everybody says, Well, wait, then our food will go bad in six months and we'll have all this waste and ~ unhappy customers and you know, the sustainability impact of that would be so much worse than, you know. So I that's a really insightful thought there. Yeah, and I I sometimes say no matter how bad you think think things are, it is always possible to make them worse. So don't use that Ha ha ha. as an excuse for inaction, but certainly you know, you need to think these things through and have the experts in the room to develop well thought out holistic solutions. Yeah. I use the story of France ~ outlawing single use plastics ~ as a~ as a an example of things not to do. They they realize quickly, wait, we can't do that. So you know, let's step that back and say and and work together with ~ organizations. But I I wanna talk about flexible film. I think that's really, really been a challenge for recycling and reuse and~ you but you've recently introduced a comprehensive framework for film and flexible recycling and circularity. Can you can you talk us through that and how you're working with brands to make that happen? Yeah, so film is probably one of the more contentious issues out there, as I'm I know you're aware. and you have many companies that need it for their packaging because it's so functional and it's low cost. but then on the flip side it's really challenging for municipalities and it's challenging for you know, folks in the collection and recycling industry when it ends up in streams it's not supposed to be in. And so as we think about our diverse membership base, we're navigating through those wildly different opinions of our members. And so with our our goal for the Film and Flex framework was to really lay out here's all the work that needs to happen in terms of design, collection, and end markets. We also thought about the role of commercial film and how that's different than consumer film. And then we talked a bit about the role of compostable films. And where that makes sense. And in some ways, it was similar to like our overall framework of all the, you know, the targets around design collection and end markets and applied specifically to film. It does not have quantitative targets and things like that in there, but it's like this has to be true or the system doesn't work. And so it lays out why these things are needed and the challenges along the way and where we see progress happening and where there appear to still And it's a very clear call to action for everyone to be working together. And I think in the film space, there's a ton of effort happening right now, and that is great. And you're seeing alignment that's happening between the different organizations, but we need to continue that. And there needs to be an understanding that it's not even just like the US Plastics Pact working on it, it's the US Plastics Pact and this NGO and this NGO and this trade organization and this, you know, all the way across the board, because this is super complex and it's gonna really require digging into those details and those nuances to figure out how to stand up a system that actually works. Yeah, exactly. There's a lot of packaging that consumers don't even see.~ you know, that tertiary packaging like stretch film ~ for pallets, Mm-hmm. that maybe you see at a Costco up on a shelf, but that gets removed before you shop that product. And I think that the the the market is doing a pretty good job of consolidating that film and turning it into things like treks, you know, for for building materials. And we have actually at Atlantic Packaging, we have the first circular ~ stretch film recycling system in in North Carolina. And it's just like we're so thrilled to be a part of that and to talk about that growth and maybe doing another one in in the West Coast or something like that. But I'm I think again, ~ long ways to go, but bright future. Yeah, and I I think one note on commercial film, there's a lot of I mean, there's a clear lack of understanding of commercial film and the volumes and where it's used and how it's used and how it's collected, et cetera, because the average person, you know, like what happens in supply chains, like people don't see, like to your point, like maybe you see it on a palette at Costco, but aside from that, you don't really think about it. And so I think that's an area where it's really important for folks in those areas to show up and engage too, because people that are designing programs or designing legislation are going to naturally think about the things that they see. And yet there's this whole huge other area, which could be like half of the film out there. And we need to make sure that that's considered appropriately and that there's viable solutions for that. And that's taken into account in programs and policies too. Excellent. Yeah, we like to say there's nothing sustainable about rotten food. And so we need to look at that holistically, you know. ~ Yeah. but I think what you're doing is incredibly important. And I I just want to commend you again and your team for the work that you're doing.~ Thank you. let's talk about what's next. what gives you hope for the future of the US Plastics Pact and and sustainable packaging as a whole. Yeah, so that's a great question. I think right now is a very chaotic moment and for anybody working in sustainability. There's a ton going on and we do have we have legislation passed, but you've started to see some of the different lawsuits and things are continuing to get negotiated and there's a lot of uncertainty. And I think that's For large corporations, like they don't like uncertainty. That's just the nature of a large Ha ha. corporation. No one signs up for that. And so that's challenging. And I think that can be a little bit of a threat to pro progress because it's like if you don't know how this is going to pan out, what do you do? And so I think it's important from that standpoint on a regulatory for the regulatory standpoint that those regulations get get put into place, and and you reduce some of that uncertainty. but the thing that gives me hope in spite of all the chaos. I was watching a movie recently. I think because of the 250th birthday of our country, I've been getting into like the Revolutionary War.~ but I was watching a movie and it had a scene from one of the constitutional conventions. And at the time, these pe men were yelling it was about states' rights versus needing a national government, and everyone was alarmed because they knew they were setting a precedent for future generations and that this was gonna be bigger than just the United States, which it turns out it was. and they're all just like yelling. No one knows what to do, and they're all just yelling. And I was like, man, if you were to get rid of the powdered wigs and just change the words, like this could be a conversation for EPR. And and I realized, Yeah, exactly. like, you know, this is democracy. Like 250 years later, like no one knows what to do and everyone's yelling. And that's just the nature of it. And so I guess my pep talk for everyone would be like people have come before us dealing with really hard challenges and figured it out. People will come after us dealing with hard challenges and figure them out. And like this is our moment and this is our issue to figure out. And we will. And so what's important is that folks don't get weary in these conversations, but like you roll up your sleeves and you keep coming to the conversations and you keep working at this until we find a solution and move forward. Because like plastic waste isn't going away. It's very evident in the environment. We know consumers are still concerned about it. And so we have to continue to push forward until we find solutions. And I do believe we will. What a great way to end. Thank you so much, Crystal. Appreciate you. ~ keep up the great work. Thank you for having me.