Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors presented by Atlantic Packaging

USA Senator Heidi Campbell on EPR in Red States

• Cory Connors • Season 5 • Episode 386

Share episode

Summary:

In this episode, Cory Connors welcomes Senator Heidi Campbell to discuss her journey from music to politics, her passion for environmental issues, and her groundbreaking work on Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR) in Tennessee. Senator Campbell shares insights into the “Waste to Jobs” initiative, the challenges of implementing EPR in a red state, and why this approach could transform recycling infrastructure across the Southeast.

Key Topics Discussed:

  • Senator Campbell’s background in music and transition into public service
  • The origin and goals of Tennessee’s Waste to Jobs program
  • Why EPR legislation matters and how it can succeed in conservative states
  • The role of Producer Responsibility Organizations (PROs) in harmonizing recycling efforts
  • Challenges with landfill capacity and the Jackson Law in Tennessee
  • Opportunities for businesses to lead in creating effective EPR models
  • Insights from the See Change Sessions 2025 event and collaboration across industries
  • The importance of harmonization to avoid 50 different EPR bills for brands
  • Potential for deposit return systems and why beverage companies resist them
  • How EPR can create jobs, reduce waste, and support a circular economy

Resources Mentioned:

Contact:

Senator Campbell encourages outreach from individuals and organizations interested in sustainability. Her contact information is available on official Tennessee legislative pages.

Closing Thoughts:

Senator Campbell emphasizes that EPR is not just an environmental solution—it’s an economic opportunity. By building recycling infrastructure and creating jobs, Tennessee can lead the way for other states. Cory and Senator Campbell agree that collaboration between brands, legislators, and communities is key to making circular economy principles a reality.

Thank you for tuning in to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors!

Chapters

00:00
Introduction to Sustainable Packaging and Senator Campbell

01:51
Senator Campbell's Journey into Public Service

05:35
Insights from Sea Change Event

08:13
Waste to Jobs Program in Tennessee

14:12
Engaging with the Community and Future Plans

18:08
Challenges and Opportunities in Recycling

https://anewearthproject.com/collections/new-earth-approved

https://www.linkedin.com/in/cory-connors/

I'm here to help you make your packaging more sustainable! Reach out today and I'll get back to you asap.

This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022.

Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors presented by Atlantic Packaging. I'm your host, Cory Connors. In today's episode, I connected with US Senator Heidi Campbell. I'm so excited and honored to get to have such an amazing guest on the show. I can't wait for you to hear about the program she is working on with her team in Tennessee. I am thrilled to have Senator Heidi Campbell from the great state of Tennessee on today. How are you Senator? Doing great. Glad to be with you today. It's an honor to have you on. It was so great to meet you at Sea Change last week. What a great event in Vermont. My first time. Was that your first time there too? It was, yes. I thought it was wonderful. great group of people. were talking about it a little bit before we started recording here. It's nice to be around a few hundred people that kind of think like us that want to make a positive impact on the planet. It really is. It's nice to be around people who are interested in complaining, but more interested em in figuring out how to solve problems. that's right. Well, you have a very interesting background. I was excited to learn that you have a history in music and all kinds of things. Can you talk to us through your progress into public service? Sure, yeah, it's so cliche, because I grew up in Nashville that I was in the music business, right? But I was a songwriter and a singer in a band and loved it. It was my best incarnation of myself, probably. But we toured with Hootie and the Blowfish and all kinds of really great bands, but we never made any money. And so I started em licensing music to film and television. And that was sort of a segue into business, went to Vanderbilt, got my MBA. And really I was one of the people that kind of bothers me right now because I was completely not paying attention to politics at all. And so I really wasn't a very political person. And like most people I know who are elected, I got involved in politics because of a single issue. And it was that they were going to... blast into a mountain in my residential only city and put up a huge shopping mall. And I thought, my gosh, we've got to stop that. It'll kill all the animals and the trees. so I started a little group called Save O Kill, and I stopped it. And then somebody had to run for office to keep it from happening again. And I was the sucker that raised my hand. And that was my gateway drug into really finding out what was going on and caring deeply about the future. um And it was concurrent with having young kids. So I think that played a big part in it too, because my main focus has been the environment. that's because, you I want us all to have a beautiful place to live in the future. That's music to my ears. I'm so excited for that. I wish there were more politicians like you that are focused on such positive things. Well, we have a hard time, not just in politics, but in general talking about the environment. It's almost just too big of an issue, I think, for some people. It's overwhelming. And we have to. I mean, we can't ignore what's going on. We've got a lot of problems we need to solve. You're totally right. It, it's easy to give up and it's easy to say, recycling doesn't work. Forget it. Oh, this is, we're, we're doomed. It's, uh just, just prepare for the end. And I think it's such a, it makes me sad when people comment things like that. I'll often get comments on my posts. recycling's not a, not a good idea, but it's, we know that it is, and we know that it's positive and it can, it can be improved and it is being improved as we speak. ah But let's talk a little bit about what it's like to be a senator. I've often wondered, can you tell us a little bit about some of the things that you do during the day? I'm interested. Yeah, it's it would be a really great job for somebody who had ADD or some, which, you know, hey, maybe I do, I don't even know. But em it's it's basically knowing a little bit about a lot of things and not knowing a lot about anything. Every single, you know, 30 minutes, the subject changes just because I think there are a lot of people here who need a lot of help in all kinds of spaces. So. at any given day looks absolutely different from the day before it. There's no predictability to it. And I love it. I'm so, I feel so lucky and fortunate to be able to do this job and to represent the people in my district. uh And I love every aspect of it, being able to help people and also participate in their accomplishments. it's really um connected. type of a job. And I'll also say it's what you make of it. mean, so my experience in this role, and I'll say that I know this is the case for every single person who's gotten elected position is totally different from anybody else's just because really you kind of build your own adventure with this kind of thing. So. Well, I've got to, that makes perfect sense. I've got to interact with your team a little bit over the last couple of weeks planning this podcast and you've got a great team around you. Very attentive, very interested in helping you and the people of Tennessee be happier and more successful. That sounds like a great situation for you. yeah, really it is. I learned so much from them and we just have Nashville. If you haven't been to Nashville, please come visit. It's a wonderful city. I agree. It's a beautiful place and I do love it there and great music and great experiences and lots of things to see. Let's talk about that event that we mentioned at the beginning, that C-Chain sessions. Any key takeaways or anything like that? You and I were in separate, that's what we call them tracks or uh situations there. Love to hear your thoughts on what you learned there. I have been to, you know, I saw a lot of familiar faces. I've been to em AmeriPens conference and another OPLN event. OPLN was hosting our part of that Sea Change event. I love OPLN and that whole team. So it was great to see some familiar faces and I've been concerned recently because I um know that with the change in administration and sort of the current climate that there's a chilling. effect that this has had on people's interest in going forth with good environmental legislation and ideas. And it was very heartening for me to see that a lot of people there were more motivated than ever. And also it was an absolutely gorgeous place. mean, we were on Lake Champlain and this really cool warehouse kind of mutual workspace and em And I really also appreciated the wraparound programming they had with people telling stories. there was one experience where we were lighting a fire on the beach. And so it was fun to actually kind of wend in some, the whole concept of sea change obviously is to bring different groups in different spaces together to find neutral efficiencies and also to just kind of increase awareness that it's all related and it's all connected. And I think they did a really good job of that. What did you think? I totally agree. It was awesome. And I've been to hundreds of events over my career like you. And it's, um, this was probably the most fun and, and what's interesting when people are having fun, they're in a positive mood and they're interested in listening. And I think that's what that's felt like the environment of, of a bunch of open ears and a bunch of eager minds and, uh open hearts. was just very, people were excited to connect. People were interested in each other, not closed off because no one was being sold to, which is often what happens at packaging events, unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah. Great. a really good way to put it. Everybody did seem very positive and open. Yeah. Well, I want to talk about you and your great state of Tennessee and a program that you have that's called Waste to Jobs. And I've heard Gary Cohen, one of your co conspirators, if you will, speak about this at an event in the past. And I want to hear from you what it is and why is there a movie about it and all of these things. It's such a wonderful thing. Yeah, Gary has been just a godsend. He showed up in my office when I didn't even know what EPR was and said, hey, I want to help you on this bill. Because CR club had kind of just put it on. I had a whole roster of bills. And I said, OK, I have to figure out what it is. it began a journey that started about three years ago. It's been such a great challenge. love puzzles and it's been a really cool challenge to try and figure out how to pass EPR in a red state. And I think it's, I think it's timely because it's, you know, when we're having all these issues with harmonization with the EPR that's being rolled out in this country right now, I think it's important to, to create this opportunity for really a package deal because when red states pass bills, they kind of fall in line. And so it's really business focused. It basically just establishes a pro. And normally you would be concerned about that because why would people be incentivized to act in the interest of the public good? But in this particular space, I think you're safe because not only do we have EPR in this country, but we have uh EPR worldwide, of course. And so all these brands are already operating under packaging EPR. And I would argue that the cost has already been built into the products to some degree. Would love your views on this. But I think that having business in an Ezra Klein abundance kind of way, take control of it juxtaposed to the guys I work with, making all the rules is a much better idea. And so it's an opportunity for brands actually to really build the perfect EPR legislation and show us how it can be done right. and I think, I think that even though everybody's a little bit uh wait and see right now, I think that it's in these times of disruption that the, that the real leaders step forward and take advantage of these sorts of opportunities because If you look at the Southeast, are in the, I think you probably saw that ball report that came out a couple of years ago. We were 48th in the country for recycling and the States around us are just as bad. So this is a huge opportunity at a Virgin area to really build a recycling infrastructure and education and EPR that works the way it should work. without all the over regulatory chokehold in the way that we're seeing sometimes with other EPR plans. Yeah, exactly. And for those listening, if you don't know, a pro is a producer responsibility organization and it's the circular action alliances, the pro on record for most of the, I think all of the seven States currently. But what you're talking about is an incredible opportunity to create your own in Tennessee and make it so that it actually produces positive financial results for those involved. which is absolutely what EPR should do and it should create jobs and it should eliminate waste to landfill and it's doing all these things. I think the impetus of this idea was because you're running out of landfill space there in Tennessee. that what I, was that correct? Yeah. I should have led with that. We have an anvil hanging over our heads uh of landfills that are at capacity. And we have a law called the Jackson Law, which prevents municipalities or allows municipalities to prevent landfills from being built near them. So everybody's nimby. And so nobody is going to agree to that. So we're in big trouble and we need a solution yesterday. Right. And I think that a lot of people will learn from what you're doing and they'll see the success of it because I do believe it will be successful in a big way. And they'll see that it makes money and then they'll see that it lowers the waste and it's an incredible idea. So I think you will start a trend. I think I'm predicting it today. Let's let's we'll make it happen. Senator Campbell, think you're an inspiration and I'm excited to just have you here on the show and talk about this stuff. Do you have other states reaching out to you about this concept? Only at Sea Change. There were a couple of people there who wanted to talk about possibly, you know, I think we'd love to have it be, you know, than the Arizona Waste to Jobs or the Texas Waste to Jobs. And it's not just a name. mean, our first effort was to go out and get end markets first. So we went across the state and we found companies in Tennessee that wanted these materials. And they wanted these materials so badly that they produced a video, they paid to produce a video to our film to tell people that they needed this bill to pass because they need those materials. And then that got even more complicated for them once the tariffs started, you know, going in and out and not real, not knowing where they're going to be the volatility of that. So, So that video is been a huge asset for us in terms of getting legislators on board and explaining it because, you know, EBR can be kind of complicated to understand. Very, yes. And this is what we're talking about with our customers at Atlantic Packaging all the time is here's what you should be focused on. Here's what, you know, these are the things that actually matter to you for your business right now. And here's how we can get ahead of this and prepare for this uncertain EPR law that's constantly changing. We've got an amazing team, including Caroline Deloach, who's looking at these laws and saying, Actually, we need to do this. Oregon did this, so we need to pivot a little bit here. I'm so thankful for really smart people like her on our team. Yeah, well, and that's the harmonization thing too. I think it's kind of crazy to think about trying as a brand to deal with 50 different PPR bills. I mean, it's just not tenable. So we're offering the option to sort of get a package deal that will probably bring along half of the country. And I think that right now, That would be a good thing. It sure makes a lot of sense. And I think it could make a lot of money for these states that really need it right now. And a lot of jobs for these states that really need those jobs right now. Um, so, and it's certainly going to have a very positive impact on the environment. So, um, I commend you for this work. I did have a question for you, cause this, this is something that's very confusing to people like, like me, who aren't in politics. What, what is the best way to reach out to someone like you Senator that that would actually get your attention and not be annoying. Yeah, no, I actually really love hearing from people, especially when they're wanting to pursue environmental things like this. So, my email is available online. And then also I give people my cell phone number. So I'm happy to have people text me and call me. I know that sounds crazy, but nobody's ever abused it. So em I'm happy to hear from people on the phone as well. If you call my legislative assistant, I'm sure she'll give it to you. That's wonderful. Heavy. So it sounds like you do have people reach out to you that have interesting ideas and concepts to make the world a more sustainable place. Yeah, I mean, just before right before we jumped on a woman got in touch with me from California who is wanting to provide intermediary support for schools that are trying to get rid of their lead pipes because she wants to make sure that the kids are getting clean water in the interim. So she's reaching out to offer that. And so I put her in touch with the right people. And, you know, there are. That's one thing about this very complicated environment that we're in right now, which I don't care which side of the aisle you're on, everybody feels that way, is that there are so many people out there doing such good work. And I really do think that this is a time when focusing on them instead of paying attention to sort of all the noise is the best use of our time. So I love hearing from people like that. I'm just grateful for them. There are just countless ways that people are doing good work. Wow, that's incredible. Well, thank you for all that work and all the efforts that you're making. What's next for you? Do you have any big shows coming up? Any big votes that you're kind of on pins and needles about? Well, we're not in session until January, so I'm really focused on this EPR bill. so we have for anybody who's in Tennessee, please join us on Friday, November 7th for our practice and policy forum with the Tennessee Environmental Council. They're amazing. They're on our team. And we're going to be talking about waste solutions in general, not just EPR, but, you know, exploring, you know, all the possibilities. And uh we'd love to have people out for that. And then know, sign up to our website, Tennessee Ways to Jobs and watch our film. It was actually nominated for a Nashville Film Award last week and em we weren't expecting that. So that was kind of fun. What a unique thing that you've created here. This is so cool. And it's just getting a lot of attention in the best way. So nice work to you and your team for that. Yeah, thanks. And thank you for all you're doing. I really appreciate it, especially coming from the brand side and the packaging side, your efforts to really connect positive environmental change to the work that you're doing. I really appreciate it. I'm grateful for that. And I think this is truly an option where circular economy can happen. And there aren't a lot of spaces where that is the case, but in this space, really, truly, you can have it work. And we just need to get all of the bottlenecks out of the way and give it the opportunity to show the rest of the country how we could do it. I agree. Does this bill include a deposit return system for any of these materials? Like in Oregon, we have a 10 cent deposit for cans and bottles, and that's very successful for us. And I know the 10 states that have it have a very great growth in recycling. How about you? Is that some part of this bill? I have visited your deposit return system headquarters and uh it was so cool. guys, not only that, I'm blown away by it. I mean, but it's been around since the seventies, I think, right? And then you also have this wonderful CAN program where people who want to, know, people who are struggling financially can bring CANs to this. I went to the place where they bring them and they get money back for them, which is just amazing. Yeah. I think it's such a Yeah. fabulous program. So Tennessee is being 48th and recycling unsurprisingly, we don't have one. And that's really been a lot of our pushback is that there's just been this just immovable opposition to that in our state from the beverage space. And so, uh yeah, so, you you have to... make compromises and sort of deal with the environment that you're in. And so we do allow in our EPR for the pro to do that. So I do, I am a huge fan of deposit, model deposit programs. And I do hope that if you build it, they will come, you know. I love that. It's interesting to me why the beverage companies would push back. I'm sure it's financially motivated, but I would think that this would be a cost savings for them to get more recycled content. It's a lack of creativity on their part. think that it's a little myopic. I think they have a hard time seeing the forest for the trees. They think of it as something that's going to end up uh increasing the cost of their uh products. But I actually disagree with that. Like I said, I think it's already built into the cost. So really, in my opinion, what you're doing is taking advantage of the opportunity to reap the benefits of something you're already paying for. Yeah, I could not agree with you more. That's exactly right. And we need to encourage these states like yours to do that and to recycle cans and bottles. It's such an easy system once you get it dialed in, uh which I know has taken Oregon four decades, but it's worth the effort. it is. And if you watch our video, you'll see that all of these companies want those materials. I they really do. They want the materials. And that's a big part of EPR in general, as you know, is also bringing the materials back to the companies that can use them. I just, just before this podcast, I interviewed Kate to the head of the association for plastics, plastic recycling. And she said that seven out of 10 beverage cans and bottles get thrown into the landfill or littered. And she said, and this was in specific to PET containers. And she said, that's such a huge amount of material that we need to get back, especially for these big beverage companies that are wanting to use 100 % recycled material. So we've got a long ways to go. is, uh yeah, I didn't know that statistic. That's, that's alarming. But also, by the way, with aluminum and glass in our state, at least. So we would be, if we, when we, when we pass packaging, APR, Tennessee Waste to Jobs, we will be keeping 1 billion tons per year of packaging out of landfills and Most of that frankly is in the form of bottles and beverage containers. I mean the majority of it. So it really is extraordinary how many single use plastic water bottles are out there. So. It's a, you're exactly right. It's overwhelming. And I think that's why people say that's why they give up, but you're exactly right. These kinds of numbers are staggering and we can make that kind of impact in every single state. I agree. And it's just logical. you know, why, I don't think there's anybody that wants those. Well, there are very few people who want those in landfills. So. thank you so much, Senator Campbell. This has been really insightful. Anything else you want to tell the audience before we close this off? If you come to Nashville, come visit me down at the Capitol. I'd love to see you and um please support Tennessee Ways to Jobs. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Head Shot

Cory Connors

Host