How to Fix Plastics Recycling (Kate Bailey) Association of Plastic Recyclers

Summary:

In this episode, Cory Connors talks with Kate Bailey about the challenges and opportunities in plastics recycling. Kate shares her journey from college recycling jobs to becoming a leading voice in policy and design for sustainable packaging. The discussion covers practical steps brands can take, the role of Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR), and why collaboration between designers, recyclers, and policymakers is critical for success.

Key Topics Discussed:

• Kate’s background and career path in recycling and sustainability
• The role and mission of the Association of Plastic Recyclers (APR)
• APR’s flagship resource: Design Guide for Plastics Recyclability
• How packaging design impacts recycling efficiency
• Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR): what it means and why it matters
• Practical advice for brands navigating EPR laws
• Benefits of EPR for recycling infrastructure, transparency, and design incentives
• Using recycled content as a key sustainability strategy
• Bright spots in plastics recycling: domestic infrastructure growth, bottle-to-bottle recycling
• The evolving role of advanced (chemical) recycling and why mechanical recycling still leads
• Consumer education and access: solving confusion and improving participation
• The future of recycling systems: regional and national frameworks 

Resources Mentioned:

• Association of Plastic Recyclers
• APR Design Guide for Plastics Recyclability
• U.S. Plastics Pact
• Oregon Recycling Modernization Act

Contact:

Connect with Kate and her team at PlasticsRecycling.org or on LinkedIn.

Closing Thoughts:

 Kate highlights that plastic recycling is effective and can become more successful through collaboration, thoughtful design, and aligned policies. She encourages companies to engage constructively with policymakers, leverage data for better packaging decisions, and embrace recycled content as a cornerstone of sustainability. Together, we can build a more efficient, transparent, and circular system for plastics.

Thank you for tuning in to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors!

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Plastic Recycling and Its Importance
02:53 Kate Bailey's Journey into Recycling
05:50 The Role of the Association of Plastic Recyclers
08:40 Navigating Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR)
11:22 The Benefits of EPR for Recycling and Sustainability
14:07 Designing for Recyclability: Best Practices
16:50 Bright Spots in Plastics Recycling
19:54 The Future of Chemical Recycling
22:26 Access and Education in Recycling
25:20 Conclusion and Call to Action

https://anewearthproject.com/collections/new-earth-approved

https://www.linkedin.com/in/cory-connors/

I'm here to help you make your packaging more sustainable! Reach out today and I'll get back to you asap.

This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022.

Transcript

0:06

So excited to have Kate Bailey here, the chief policy officer of the Association of Plastic Recyclers. Welcome, Kate. Thanks so much, Cory. It's great to be with you. We were talking about before the show that we were both at an event recently together, which is really cool. I didn't realize you were there. I'm sad that I didn't get to meet you there, but the sea change in Vermont, the sea change sessions, 2025 were pretty amazing. What'd you think of that event? think it's amazing. It's so great to see so much momentum to improve packaging design, improve recycling, to talk about recycling policies. I've worked in this space for a long time and it's just amazing the amount of momentum and the great folks coming together to solve some of these big problems. I totally agree. was something I hadn't experienced before and it was a really impressive event. Great group of people. Well, let's talk about you. Let's talk about your background. Can you tell us how'd you get into this line of work? Yeah, kind of a funny story. I just fell into recycling my sophomore year of college. I needed a job on campus, and it was one of, frankly, the better paying jobs on campus. I was like, OK, great. I'll pick up recycling from professors' offices. I had a little cart. I picked up cans and bottles and paper sorted separately from a lot of the offices on campus. And I had no idea. nearly 25 years later, I would still be in this, but it's been fascinating. My fast forward senior year in college, I landed a job with an amazing nonprofit recycling organization at a Boulder, Colorado called EcoCycle, one of the leading pioneers, starting one of the first curbside recycling programs back in the seventies and still doing great work today. I spent nearly 20 years with them, really understanding and experiencing the nuts and bolts of how recycling works every day in local communities. And then how do we leverage local state national policies to make recycling better? So it's been a great ride so far. It's not abnormal to hear people are from Colorado or spend time in Colorado or Oregon or Washington or California. And these few states is where a lot of us reside, it sounds like. So that's really cool to meet a fellow sustainability aficionado. So on your LinkedIn profile, it says you are a recycling expert working on to fast track. effective policy solutions to rapidly improve recycling. That's a very impressive statement. How does the associations of plastics recyclers work to accomplish this? First I'll say thank you. It's a little nervous somebody reading your LinkedIn profile back to you. I was like, wait, what did I write? do that right? Yeah. So let me give a little background on the Association of Plastic Recyclers. We are the only North American association focused exclusively on improving recycling for plastics. So what does that mean? It means plastics recycling is what we do day in, day out. We want to be the go-to resource for everyone from plastics designers to manufacturers to recyclers. You're thinking plastics recyclers, we want you to think of the Association of Plastic Recyclers. At our core, the most important part of our membership is the recyclers themselves. So you actually have to be in the business of recycling the plastics, which means washing, flaking, grinding, and a number of other verbs we can get into. We represent the entire supply chain, but we have the folks on the ground who are doing it every day. And this is something that I really appreciate about APR because As a policy officer, I work a lot with states and federal government, and I really try to underscore to them, we do this every day. So we're not trying to develop policy based on theory. We're trying to help policy improve the everyday operations and what's actually happening on the ground and our years and years of experience. So APR is a wealth of information and two things I really want to focus on in terms of how do we work to improve plastics recycling. Our flagship program is our design guide for plastics recyclability. And I hope that your audience is deeply familiar with this. But if they're not, it is your go-to resource. If you're putting plastic packaging on the market, our guide will help you understand. the shapes, the colors, the adhesives, the additives, the labels, all of those components of the packaging and how they affect recyclability. So we can work with you to say, you know, let's do a cap that's this color or let's do an adhesive that washes off so that we could, you together with the packaging designers and the recyclers make a more efficient recycling system. So it really is an incredible tool. So that's really more on the technical side of things. Lots of PhDs on our staff working with, you know, great packaging engineers. make my... Yes, thank you. PlasticsRecycling.org. It's also open, so, you know, everyone can look at it and use it. So highly recommend checking that out. Those technical folks, make my job easier. So we can really stand on, know, this is based on the science of how plastics recycling works. And then my job is to translate that to the policymakers. We work with US states, we work at the federal level, we work in Canada, we worked a little bit with the UN Global Plastics Treaty, kind of breaking down the barriers of what it... What are the concerns about plastics recycling? What actually is working and how we can make it work better through policy solutions. That's incredible. And this, is what we need. We need to get together and figure this out as a group. I've got a lot of people that I work with that are very nervous about extended producer responsibility laws coming up. can you give us any advice for the people listening that, you know, here's what I would do if I were you, if I were a brand or a packaging company, what would you recommend? Yes, it is a very exciting time. It's also a very nervous time. so I like to tell, like to kind of let's the stage a little bit. So the US now has seven states that have packaging, that have laws for packaging EPR or extended producer responsibility, which means the cost for recycling products is actually going to be borne by the companies that make the products. So those companies are now in charge of helping to fund and manage the recycling system. Currently in many places, it's the local government that's trying to manage this. So this is a fundamental shift in how we manage recycling. And I think it's really important for us all keep in mind, this is big. This is a big change and change is hard and it's complicated and it's moving quickly and we'll get there. Like we're in a tough phase right now. There's no denying it. And that's just, that's where it is. think it's helpful to acknowledge like things are hard right now, but we also know that Canada and Europe has done packaging EPR for 30 years and many of these same companies are successfully selling products. have improved recycling rates. They've improved packaging design. So, you know, we're in kind of the awkward growth spurt phase. So I want to give a couple of pieces of advice. First, be engaged. So one of the things that I've learned in working with state and federal governments, they don't know our industry. They don't know packaging design. They don't know plastics recycling. They're trying to meet broader goals of reducing plastic pollution, reducing greenhouse gas emissions. And it's our job to meet them on that and to help them understand, I hear where you're coming from, but this is what we do every day. And this is how we can refine. A great example of that is even, you know, I've seen things in law about how you measure and it will say, you know, number of units, like, well, hold on recyclers measure in tons, like we don't count stuff, you know, so just basic things like that. So really come to the table in a constructive way and, and talk about what you need as your specific industry and how your supply chain works, or maybe helping policymakers understand the CAPX on new packaging design might be 18 to 36 months. You don't just walk in and flip the switch to a different type of plastic tomorrow. we really need them to help. We need to help them understand our barriers to making changes and in a constructive way. And then I think we also need to really take this as an opportunity. Companies are digging in and finding data on their packaging that they have never had before. And with that data comes opportunity to streamline packaging, reduce EPR fees, design better for recyclability. the companies that are going to come out on top of this are the ones that take that data and use it to drive real change and efficiencies. Exactly. That's it. And you have to know where you are to improve. Right. So, know, I am often asked, I often ask people this question and they say, get a baseline, you you got to know where to start. And I think that's, that's great advice. Well, well said, Kate, how do you, if we do this, right, if it goes well, like the, the Europeans and the Canadians who have been doing this for three decades, how do you think EPR will actually help? recycling and sustainability move forward. Great question, right? Why are we doing this? Because it is hard and it's a little painful at times. So let's come back to the why. Why are we here? So recycling, we often hear is complicated, it's confusing, it's different in different places. So packaging EPR is really set up to solve all of those problems. So let's break it down. So for you and me at home, in our homes, our places of work, we want to make recycling easier. We want to make sure everyone has a convenient place to drop it off, whether that's curbside or drop off programs. And we want to encourage people to participate. And so the reasons those things matter is because then we can collect more plastics. We can collect more cardboard metal for recycling. So we need to make it easier at the start. So that's kind of the first core goal. We also want more materials to be recycled. And in order to do that, we're going to need to build out more infrastructure. so EPR really is about providing adequate and long-term sustainable funding for recycling so that we can build those new recycling facilities, we can invest more. And the great thing about this is this is all local. For the large part, materials stay in North America. We're talking about US jobs, US domestic manufacturing. And using our recycled content to make new products. So we build out that infrastructure. So what does that mean? It means like companies like Atlantic and others can say my packaging is recyclable and it's going to go to this source. Another benefit it's important, I think for a lot of your audience is that we're going to reward good design. So there's a lot of companies out there designing products to be recyclable, choosing more sustainable products. that's not always favored in the marketplace. Sometimes, you know, it's just cheaper is better. So the way that EPR fees are set up, the way we have bonuses or, or penalties based on good design, we're going to reward those companies that are making the smart choices toward more sustainable packaging, which a benefits those companies and kind of steers us in the right direction. And then also it helps you get better quality recycled content back to you that you can then use in your products. And then the last thing I'll add is transparency and data. We hear a lot of, I don't know what happens when I put my recycling in the bin. Where is it actually going? So one, underscore one, it works. And two, this is a huge opportunity for us to get better data, better transparency so that we can really help households understand, yes, it matters. Here's why it matters. Please help us out and put your stuff in the bin. Exactly. Well said that a lot of people push back on the concept of sustainable packaging saying, it's too expensive. But then when you factor in EPR fees and all of these different benefits of more sustainable designs, it can actually be a savings and sometimes a huge savings. Sometimes we're talking six, seven figure savings to be more sustainable, which is exciting. it's helping those companies realize that in the marketplace. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think it sounds like the APR can can help with that. So make sure if you're listening, you reach out to Kate and her team. And I did want to ask you what what kinds of can you give us maybe an example or two of things that companies could do to be more sustainable with their packaging? I focus on two things and they really all start at the beginning of the process. So packaging design. So I spent 20 years as a recycler. We just handled whatever came in, right? And there was lots of times there was like, why did they do this? Right? Because so all recycling really starts with how the package is designed to start with. Can you know the colors, the way we sorted the glues, the labels, the adhesives, there's so many parts. to that and so that's really why APR has focused on the design guide about you know getting getting that packaging right from the start just makes everything else in the process easier so you know please come talk to us we're here to help with that and then the second part of it which I think is actually a part that a lot of companies overlook a lot of companies get really focused on I want to make my package recyclable I want to put the the chasing arrows on it. wanted to go in the bin. Great. I hit my goal. But the flip side of that is, you using recycled content? Is your product made from your old products or something similar? And to me, that is really the key to sustainability. Got some great data that shows one of the best ways to reduce plastic pollution is actually use more recycled content because you're reducing the use of new plastics. And the same goes for aluminum, the same goes for cardboard. And I think it's also helpful for people to know sometimes you can't make a product with 90 % recycled content. Like that's not what I'm asking. I'm just like, where are your opportunities to use 5, 10 % more? Like that could make a huge difference across the entire packaging chain. Right, right. And increasing that demand for recycled content drives the prices up, which will help in the long run make recycling more profitable, which will increase recycling rates, which will encourage recyclers, which is, just this circular cycle that we really need to jump on. So there's a lot of negative feedback about recycling and specifically plastics recycling. So I would love it if you could tell us maybe a couple of bright spots, something that you've seen like, okay, here's an uptick in this or we've noticed this is improving. Great question. So I'll say it again. Plastics recycling works. Please put your bottles, your containers, please put them in the bin. We are recycling five billion pounds of plastics packaging every year and we have the capacity to recycle another two billion pounds if you put your bottles and your containers in the bin. So it is working. That being said, it can certainly work better. And so there are a lot of improvements that have been made. A couple wanted to highlight. There was a notion that all plastics recycling was shipped overseas and was sketchy things were happening in Asia and things like that. And there was a time about 10-ish years ago when about a third of plastics were shipped overseas to be recycled. Some of those were very legitimately recycled and some of those were not. But that was about a third of plastics about 10 years ago. Where we stand today is less than 6 % of plastics are exported, which means we have really built up our domestic recycling infrastructure and responded to that outrage of why are things being shipped overseas? So I want to help people understand there has been a rapid reinvestment in US recycling over the last 10 years. So that's been a huge bright spot. I also hear a lot from people, well, plastics can't be recycled back into bottles, they get made into other stuff. We are now recycling more plastic bottles back into new plastic bottles than ever before and that any other product category. So that's a huge shift and that also shows you that some plastics can actually be recycled more than once. So your PET bottle can be recycled right back into a PET bottle that you can use again, and then the cycle continues. So I think that circular story is really important. And then the last thing I think I'll mention is to come back to our conference last week. When I was working as a recycler, people would call and they'd be mad that a package wasn't recyclable. And they'd say, don't you talk to packaging designers about how to end it? they were like, no, we don't. 20 years ago, we didn't. And now there are so many great groups like the US Plastics Pack, like the Sea Change Conference last week where we are actually all sitting across the table. And, you know, helping realize this is why it's a challenge for recycling. This is why it's a challenge on the design side. And, you know, those conversations and the changes coming out of that to me are so heartening. Like we're going to solve this together because we finally gotten together. Yes, that's it. And these conferences in person are so valuable to that progress. I couldn't have said that better. Yeah, well said. Very important that we continue to get together and brainstorm and really listen to each other's issues and how we can help solve them. I did want to talk about something a little bit controversial. we've talked about, we've heard about advanced recycling or chemical recycling. And I've often heard that it takes more energy than it's worth to actually recycle it. And then last week I heard it's actually better now and it's, and it's efficient. Can you speak to that? Do you have any numbers there or anything that you can tell us about that kind of recycling? Yeah, that's a great question. Get that all the time. And it's a very evolving topic. So I think that's all. I'll start there. And I want to underscore that when we talk about plastics recycling, plastics is not one thing. There are thousands of applications of plastics. And in order to improve plastics recycling, we need to figure out solutions for how to recycle. the plastics that are used in the hospital, the plastics that are used in your car, the clothing that we're wearing. mean, look around your office, my office, like all of these plastics are things that could be recycled if we build the right system. And so I think it's helpful to step back from that lens because I think so often we get tied up in plastics is that, you know, bottle I put in my recycling bin or that bag I have. And, you know, that's a really packaging is less than half of what we use plastics to make. So we need a variety of solutions. short answer is we're going to need new technologies, especially for some of those non-packaging type materials. it's all about chemical recycling is an umbrella term. It's many different processes for many different types of, like I said, are you recycling carpet or clothing or car parts or So we really need to be talking about it in that specific context of like, what are you trying to recycle? What is it made into? And getting past that idea that there's just this one magic facility that's gonna take everything and make it great. Like that's just not gonna happen. No, no. So I think it plays an important role, I... But I also want people to realize we spend a lot of time arguing about it or kind of debating what the role might be. And this is an evolving conversation. We don't even have collection programs for how to recycle carpet to start with. We are years away from some of these technologies really taking scale. So while this is an important conversation, I think Sometimes it takes up too much air in the room and this is a conversation that we should continue to have over the next five or 10 or more years. But we need to come back and focus to what can we do today with the technologies we have, packaging design we have, and build out those solutions and let chemical recycling play out as it will as an option over time. Yeah, that's a good point. We've got a long way to go and we need to adapt and evolve as we move forward and embrace the things that are working and shut down the things that don't. So that's a great point. I think mechanical recycling seems to be working very well. know PET trays and PET bottles are getting chipped up and recycled and turned back into the trays or bottles. So that seems to be working well. what you're experiencing. Absolutely. And so, you know, like to bring people back to what can we do today? know, residents who put more bottles in their bin today, we can recycle them. We have the extra capacity. And so the PET bottle is a great example. We know how to recycle 100 % of PET bottles, your standard soda water type of bottle. We know how to recycle them back into bottles with mechanical recycling. We do this across the country. Our biggest holdup is that seven out of every 10 PET bottles are thrown away or littered across the country. So our fundamental problem is in technology. It's getting those bottles back into the recycling bin and getting more homes to have recycling bins. And that is a very doable, solvable problem today. So there really is a need to concentrate on both what we can scale efficiently today and then how we work together on solving some of those longer term challenges. Do you think that's a recycling access issue or is it a consumer education issue or both? It is both. So we know that there's a large, there's a good portion of households, especially apartments across the country that lack convenient access to recycling. EPR for packaging will help with that. They'll help fund those programs. We also know there's confusion. People are like, I don't know, should I recycle it? So with EPR, we see states like Oregon. Here is one list of what's recyclable for the whole state. That's great. That's great, right? So that's those are the bright spots. We're like, we've talked for years. Maybe we could have one list. Now, Oregon has one. It's great. I think that Recycling Modernization Act in Oregon is going to be a total game changer for the country. think if we're successful here in the Northwest, I think it'll get adopted nationally. You think that's possible? I think we're working toward a national system. know, the US likes to do things state by state. So I think, I think what we'll have, you know, what we'd like to see is, is there'll be some national framework and then states have some variability to do their own things. And, and I envision a system where we have regional systems, know, the West coast is doing their thing. Northeast is doing their thing. Southeast Midwest. So yeah, huge economies of scale, huge opportunity to grow. And I think I also want to just close by saying, you know, my world's plastics recycling. I'm here to help make that better. But this is about lifting all boats. So as companies start to look at their entire packaging portfolio, as they start to pay fees on it, this is opening up opportunities for compostables. Where is reusable a better situation? Until you're actually looking at your packaging portfolio and saying, these are my costs. you're kind of making decisions in the blind. So now companies are actually have the data, they have the cost figures, and they're able to better figure out what is the right pathway for each of my product types. Well said. Thank you so much, Kate. This has been amazing. What's the best way for people to get in touch with you other than your website plasticsrecycling.org? PlasticsRecycling.org I'll say is the best place to start. You can connect with me or my 20 amazing colleagues who can talk all day long about many of the issues with plastics recycling and how we can help. And then you can find us on LinkedIn as well. Well, thank you for your wisdom. Thank you for the work that you and your team do. I think it's incredibly important to a more sustainable future. Thank you. Thanks, Cory. Likewise, Atlantic does great work. I really appreciate your leadership in the space. Thank you.