This time I get interviewed! Career advice and more with Kimberly Packard

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimberlyspackard/

This episode is very unique as I'm getting interviewed! 

Kimberly Packard reached out to me to ask me about my career path and advice to job hunters and I said, let's make it a podcast! 

How did I get into packaging? 

What is the best advice I've received? 

How can you start a new career journey? 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/packaging-today-show/id1656906367

Join Us Live Daily on LinkedIn Or YouTube or listen at your leisure on Apple or Spotify 

Packaging Today Podcast 

https://open.spotify.com/show/6dksVwqEFVDWdggd27fyFF?si=e924995740f94e19

https://www.linkedin.com/in/cory-connors/

I'm here to help you make your packaging more sustainable! Reach out today and I'll get back to you asap.

This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022.

Transcript

0:15

Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guest is Kimberly Packard, and we're gonna do something very different today. this is a total, reversal, where I will be interviewed by Kimberly. I'm very excited about it, and, can't wait to see how this turns out. So, Kimberly, I'll turn it over to you, my friend. Thank you so much. thank you for having me. I'm definitely part of the, a crew that likes to ask questions and I'm very fascinated by your success and how you got there. So I wanted to ask a few questions to get a better idea. I appreciate it. I really do. This is exciting. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah. Great. so I wanted to start off by just giving a little bit of background and helping under the audience understands why we're doing this and what prompted me to reach out to you. I have a bizarre background. It's a little zigzaggy. I started out in accounting. Right outta high school 'cause it was the good girl thing to do and, get a job that you know is stable. And then I got to stocks and bonds and I was like, yep, no, I can't do that. It was intimidating, to say the least. So I went out for something that I was really passionate about. I wanna be an author someday. And so I went for English literature and, started realizing that, Degree in liberal arts might not be as stable as I'd like. and as I was raised to seek out, so I actually went back to trade school where I was doing accounting for graphic design. And I did work in that industry for a while and I started feeling like I wanted to contribute more to the world around me. So, I actually went to university for sustainability as a whole, but, I feel like there are a lot of people out there like me who might be looking at their start of their career or a career transition who kind of wanna get a better idea of how to do it. And I feel like you've done a great job and have a good head on your shoulders and I appreciate what you do. So I wanted to get started. thank you. Great. My first question, did you consider any adjacent careers or roles. Yes, right outta high school I wanted to be in advertising and, wanted to make commercials. I loved, that marketing aspect of the world. I thought it was so great and creative, and I actually got my degree in advertising management and marketing and. When I graduated, not a single advertising firm in the world was hiring because it was just this really low point in that, economy. So all of the sudden I had to, fall back on what I knew and, had spent my college career making boxes, to pay my way for, through school. my parents didn't have any money and, for, college for me, but they said, okay, you can stay here in, in the basement, for a few years and, we won't charge you rent as long as you're going to school full-time. And I said, okay, great. That's a fair deal. Thank you so much. And, so made boxes for five years, which is where I got my nickname CoryGated. And, turned that into eventually my social media handle. And that's a different story we'll share to the end. But yes, I totally, I wanted to do something totally different than this. but followed, the career path and when I went to a career fair right out of college. There was a packaging company. I was like, oh, well I know about boxes. And, but they wanted me to do sales. And I said, no, I don't wanna do sales. My grandfather and my dad were both, salespeople and, I saw how difficult it was and they said, well, why don't you give it a shot? And 23 years later, and I'm still at the same company, still in a sales capacity, so. Wow. Wow. That's a, that's a track for you. I appreciate it. I feel like I've got a similar, background. Wonderful. did you pass any opportunities up that might, in hindsight, have proved wise or necessary to, to your path or maybe felt like a loss of the time? I have had offers over the years to do other things, but have been very loyal to my company. a lot of other packaging companies, of course, are interested in hiring. Me or any successful salesperson, they want to bring you over, that's an easy way for them to, grow their business. I did have one job that was, very different and it would've been in the retail, space, selling a retail product line, that I thought was. Very interesting. And, sometimes I look back at that and think, oh, that, that would've been cool. I could, I had an offer. it was a very, reasonable, offer and I think it would've been interesting to work in a totally different scope. Can I ask why you turned it down? At that time, I didn't take that job because, they were a customer. And still are. And, I felt like I was more valuable to them on this side of the desk. And, that's what I said to their COO and he thanked me and appreciated that I. Point of view. And that was the honest answer. I felt like I could add more value to them because I didn't know how to do retail sales at the time. It would've been a different, way of doing things for me that I, than I'm used to. And I got to be very valuable to them, as a supplier. Okay. Wow, I can appreciate that. So would you include that in the next question? Where, what was the most pivotal choice or change you made in your career? no, I think, the most pivotal change I made was, starting social media. this is something that I didn't do before. I didn't have a Facebook page, wasn't interested in it, thought, oh, that's really self-serving. I don't wanna be a part of that. I just wanna keep my head down and work hard. And what I finally realized during COVID was that, and thank you to Gary Vaynerchuk for inspiring me to start social media and started on TikTok and, started making videos about sustainable packaging. And that's about five years ago now. And that's turned into a totally different career for me, being a promoter, an advocate, an educator in sustainability and in sustainable packaging. more specifically. and then it turned into meeting my friends Adam Peak and Evelio Mottos and starting our Packaging Today podcast, and then starting my own podcast called Sustainable Packaging, which is. This one, that some of you listening will, will listen to it on this, podcast, but it's been an absolute game changer for my career and for my life. I've gotten to travel the world and, learn from people all over the world about sustainability and packaging. That's fantastic. That is definitely how I found you. And so I appreciate the education, the connection, and I think that's one of the things that I gravitate towards as well is connecting people. To further the possibilities. Yeah. So I really appreciate that. I'm glad that's a career move you made. Oh yeah. I'm, I am too. And I was 42 years old. Wow. and to start social media as a, someone in. nearing the middle, hopefully of their life, is very overwhelming. I didn't know a lot of the things that people that had a social media account for many years knew. so I trial by error and, have made over 2000 videos and, on TikTok and it's been very successful and I'm thankful for having. I don't know whether it's, guts or just, ignorance is bliss, thought process. But, it's been a great thing for me and really changed the way I look at things. Yeah, that resonates with me as well. Just the idea of going back and changing careers later in life. I actually had a guest speaker back when I was in accounting who said that the average American had seven to eight careers. Not jobs, but careers. And I think that's one of the things I've really latched onto is, It might be intimidating and new, but that's exciting. And exciting can be interpreted in a positive way. So be nervous and do it anyway. Love that. Exactly. That's exactly right. Be nervous, try something different. it's okay to fail. That's how we grow, right? If you're not nervous, you're not doing it right. Kind of. If it doesn't scare you a little bit. Did you really try? Yeah. I love that. Exactly. from there, In your career, is there anyone that you're close with or in your career specifically? is there a degree, certification or body of knowledge that's necessary for the succeeding in your specialization? I think, there are some, but, like the Packaging School is an amazing source of education. the packaging school.com is, Clemson backed, education system. Highly recommend them, for any professional. That's looking to expand their knowledge and doesn't want to enroll in a college per se. They have, hundreds of courses that you can take and get certificates and, broaden your horizon. But, I even have a course on there about TikTok and, it's something that people will take and they'll learn the latest in, what's going on there, on that platform. But I think you can, of course you go and get a bachelor's and then a master's and then, get a doctorate in, packaging engineering or, sustainability or, there are many people that are scientists in this world. what I've done is mostly on the job training and, and. Watching how things are made in a production facility. learning about boxes by making them and learning about, how items are packaged by watching them be packaged and saying, oh, well, that, that doesn't work, or We could do this way. Have Abby tried that? And, I think so. When people ask me things like that, how, what's the best way to prepare for a career in packaging? I say, go spend time in a production facility and learn about all the different substrates and watch how they're made and ask the press operators what to do. Oh, okay. So there I have a few questions about. Some of what you just said. Yeah. you said that you did a lot of on the job training, I guess it that, and go spend time in a production facility. How do you think they put in those doors? That's a good question. Yeah. and a lot of people don't realize this, but people want to help. And I think this, when I speak to younger people and people looking to change their career path, I will say to them. Why don't you reach out to people that are doing the thing that you wanna do, and why don't you reach out to people that make the thing that you want to sell or you want to buy, and ask them to spend some time with them. I've almost, I think maybe once or twice had people say, no, I don't. I can't do that. most people, I would say 95% or more people want to help. They want to show, the next generation or the next group of people how things work and how things, are made and what they do for a job. and so my advice is ask. Ask for help. Yeah, you don't get what you don't ask for. That's right. That's wonderful. Okay. that's really good to hear. I feel like I've had those experiences myself. I've set up a few. field trips, essentially. Yes. in my current career. You're never too old for a field trip. Right, right. Just for myself and my colleagues, just because I was curious. so I love that idea of just asking the questions and seeing if you can get in and can you show me what you're doing. That's okay. That's good to know. Yes. do you have any daily, weekly, or et cetera career habits that you've found crucial to your career growth? I have a thirst for knowledge. I, I want to learn about the latest in my field of expertise. I wanna know what's the new material coming out in sustainable packaging. I want to hear about the coatings. so I absorb information. I learn from others. I am, I listen to podcasts, I go on LinkedIn. I, I'm constantly researching, okay, what's different, what's new, what's been successful, what's failed, and why. And, so my advice is just to continue to learn. can I ask a little bit more about how you met the people that you now partner with your podcasts and any kind of traveling you do and. Yeah. So, in particular my friends Adam Peak and Evelio Matos, I met them, through social media. And, Aveo commented on one of my, LinkedIn lives, or it was a post, I don't remember, but I made a post about, GCMI color books for corrugated printing. And he said, oh, hey, how do I get one of those books?'cause he's a packaging designer, one of the most successful and, in the world in my opinion. He's done, he's incredible. but he asked me, where do I get one of those books? And I said, oh, I've got two. You can have one of mine. And so we immediately developed a friendship. I sent him the book that I had and he was very appreciative. And then we just. Started a friendship from there and Adam Peak, made so much content on social media about the thing that I'm passionate about, which is packaging and sustainable packaging that he's just impossible to ignore. And, and that, and I mean that with a compliment. to him because he's so good at it. And so I've learned from him how to do this. And, of course we all have our own style. but he, he and I really connected through the LinkedIn and social media. Oh, wonderful. Okay. I guess in that way, how have you differentiated yourself in the industry? I think by taking risks, like making tiktoks and and being willing to stand up and show, new products that maybe even I don't sell, or, maybe even our competitors products. having competitors on my podcast, to keep it authentic. And to show what the whole, global society is doing to improve packaging and make it more sustainable. even when it doesn't help me, I want to be an advocate and educate, people about sustainable packaging. it's not about me. I'm a conduit for others. I've had over 350 people, on this podcast, and I'm thankful and honored to be a part of that system. Wow. Thank you. well, what is the best piece of advice you've received? I think it's don't, worry about what other people think of you. They're probably not thinking about you anyways. And I think that really, enlightened me. Because, most of us are focused on ourselves and of course we are, right. but to be so worried about what other people think, stifles you and it makes you stop when you shouldn't. You should go and you should go as fast as you can and do the thing that you love and don't worry about what other people think. 90% of people look at social media, and they don't interact at all. So let's say you post something and you get five likes. Actually, it's more like a hundred people liked it. the numbers are exponentially more, and I have people stop me all the time at events say, I love your stuff on social media. I don't like 'em or anything on online. I never comment like, well, why not? Oh, I don't want anybody to know that. I like it. And it's like, okay, well that's your journey. But that's really holding you back. And I think if you interacted and got involved, you could, do so much more with your career if you wanted to. Now, to each their own and anonymity is nice, and, it feels good. but my advice is jump in and be a part of the team. That's really great to hear. I appreciate those words of advice. Yeah, I feel like, worrying about failing publicly in your career Definitely has hindered me in the past and I can see how it slow me down in trying to make the next decision. Like what if I jump too high? the harder your fall. Right, right. So I, I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. have you impacted anyone else's career path? Ooh, I think so. I have, especially younger people coming up to me at events and I even had somebody ask me to sign a book that I wrote a prologue for, recently in Amsterdam that felt really cool to have a young st packaging student, asked me, and thank me for the content I make and thank me for what I do. So, yes, I think I've had some impact. I don't know how much or how many, but some people have thought that what I was doing was interesting enough to, be drawn to this. industry, packaging industry is very unique. Career path. but I even got to speak at a Pac Jam event. I was the keynote speaker, last year, with the top eight packaging schools That was really fun. So in terms of, engaging with either your local community or packaging community, do you have any recommendations about. Any opportunities that might, we might not be aware of? I know for instance, you said just, email someone, call someone up and see if you can, walk through their packaging facility and have them show you some parts of it. is there anything aside from that might be great in terms of community engagement that'll get your, that'll beef up your career or encourage. Growth, I guess yes, I would say don't wait for a job posting. If you're interested in working, with a company, reach out to that company and say, listen, I don't see that you have any job openings for, my skillset right now, but here's what I'm great at and here's why I think you should hire me anyways, and how I can be a great, member of your team. And, and don't nag them, but be always be in their thought process. I. They say newsletters aren't, for people to read, but they're reminders that you exist. And I think that's a really insightful thing to think about is to keep making content, keep reaching out and saying, Hey, remember I'm here for you if you need somebody in this area or if you need help with this, and don't hesitate to, maybe take a role that. pays less for a little while to try something different because you don't wanna live your life just, working at a career that you like just a little bit. you wanna be passionate, you want to really enjoy your life and your career. Yeah. may I ask, what would you say to someone who's going through this process? Similar to when you were looking for a marketing job and the industry itself was hurting a little bit, because I feel a little bit of that. So how would you tell someone, keep them motivated in a, an industry that's feeling the hurt a little. Totally understand that, and it can be very frustrating. It can be, you can really get down in your mindset. I think take a step back and look at, okay, I. What, what's maybe another thing I could try for a while? What's something else that's similar or not similar? rather than not working for a year, I would say go work at a place that. you enjoy, I, I like to drink beer. so I would work at a brewery, and make $15 an hour and love that. And, but then maybe you would meet somebody in the marketing team and they would say, oh, we love, you're passionate about this. We wanna bring you onto that team. And then all of a sudden, okay, a new career path has opened up to you. And I think my advice is. Don't stop moving. do go do something that you enjoy, even if it's less financially exciting than you hope for. don't look at it as a step down. Look at it as a step to the left or to the right and, continue to try new things. Yeah, I think, one of the pieces of encouragement I'd had was, don't forget about transferable skills. They can really take you from the interim job, career path, what have you to where you wanna be. So that was another recommendation in the book that I'm reading, is to think about the interim step. Right. And sometimes you can't jump from where you are to where you wanna be. You have to take that middle step to get there. I, absolutely, and don't be afraid to post about your journey. You never know who's watching. You never know who's listening, and it just takes one person to make a totally new opportunity for your life. my advice to young people and people looking for a new job is post about it. Talk about it. Say, Hey, this happened today, this was great. I feel better today. Or, Hey, did you, have you ever tried this? act, act like an advocate for others, and, become that source. And then maybe all of a sudden you'll be, an hr. You never know what your career path could do. Maybe that's your passion. You love helping people find their jobs, or whatever that could be. Yeah. That's wonderful. I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Yeah. did you have any questions for me? Is there anything? I think, just wanna hear about what, what will be done with this, information. Maybe you could talk about that a little bit so people know where to look. Yeah, so I, I am sure I'll share it on my LinkedIn at some point. I am actually part of the, advisory committee for the grad, the program that I graduated, my bachelor's in. And we met actually Tuesday and Wednesday of this week. And part of what I really wanted to lean into and to get answers for was the ones who had such vague answers of what they're passionate about. They took the category names and ran with it and. they introduced themselves going around the table as, this is what I'm studying, this is my minor. It was, I wanted to stop them and I should have, to say, okay, but what drives you? What? and I really want them to feel empowered in terms of. Knowing how to go from graduation to career. and having a better idea of what that path looks like, what it requires, and what they can do now before graduation to get them there. So I really wanted to make sure I asked questions that could be, vague and yet diverse enough the same time for those. Who, have career paths like me who don't, but have question marks on their foreheads. I love that. Yes. And it's okay to have a question mark on your forehead. It's okay to not know yet. most interesting people don't know what they wanna do, for their career, and that's okay. And maybe they, like you said, before we were talking, on the interview, most many people have seven or eight, careers in their lives. It's incredible. I think that's what's kept me going, looking at my past education blocks, not as failures, but as, pursuing the interests that I have and then pulling back later in life, looking at them and seeing the big picture of, oh, that, those are the three pillars of sustainability. I've really captured that. Maybe by mistake, maybe intentionally. thank you. Subconscious. So yeah, I absolutely, I completely understand that. Yeah. I would like to add one thing of another piece of advice for anyone. If you say you're going to do something, do it. So many times I've had people say to me, oh, I'll reach out to you on social media. oh, I'll send you this thing. And when they don't do it, it shows me that they're not going to follow through in their careers. And I, the people that do it, the people that are, consistent, the people that show up are the ones that I would recommend for jobs and recommend for careers, to people that are hiring, the people that actually do the thing that they say they're going to do. And it's so simple. It takes a matter of seconds to send an email, to reach out on LinkedIn to send a message and say, here, this is the thing that I told you about. Today. so that's my advice. Figure out a way to remember what you told people to do that you were going to do. And I will send myself an email. My inbox is my reminder list, and I'll say, oh, send so-and-so the thing that you talked about today. and I won't delete that email until it's done. I send myself text messages. I love it. And that's a reminder, and you can delete it once it's done, and then the email is there in your sent box as a reminder of when you did it. Yep. So yeah, I can completely agree with that. That's wonderful. And advice. I appreciate that. Yeah. Thank you, Kimberly. I really appreciated this. this has been interesting and fun. Yes. Thank you so much. I, we have so much in common in terms of how we went through our careers. I appreciate the details. Yeah. I hope people enjoy this. Thank you. Thank you.