Sustainable Packaging
Industry Experts discuss all the new materials and ways that packaging can be more sustainable and how we can do our parts to help recycle and reuse. Sustainable Packaging is and will continue to affect us all in our daily lives. We have lots of fun and get down to the real data of what's working to help our planet!
Sustainable Packaging
Reuse Your Boxes with Package Loop from LimeLoop (CTO Chantal Emmanuel)
165 Billion Corrugated Boxes shipped daily in the USA, what if they could all be reused instead of recycled right away?
Do you have a stack of boxes that you would like to sell for reuse?
Did you know boxes can be reused several times?
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Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guest is my friend and returning visitor, Chantal Emmanuel, the CTO and co-founder of Lime Loop. How are you, Chantelle?
Chantal Emmanuel:Pretty good. Excited to be here. I'm, I feel like a little bit of a fan girl. I love the podcast. I'd love, love over you during, and love that you're able to make packaging fun, which is always what we're behind here too.
Cory Connors:Wow, that means the world to me. You are an icon in the industry. You are somebody that people look up to and learn from. What you and your partner have done is really impressive. but before we get to that, let's talk a little bit about your background in case maybe they missed the first episode we did together.
Chantal Emmanuel:Glad to. hi, I'm Chantal Emmanuel , as mentioned, the CTO and co-founder of Lyme Loop. a little unconventional. My background is actually in software engineering and so I have been working in this space for, not have to say, well, over a decade. I've been seeing a decade for a while. but the idea of, really finding that intersection between. Physical products and physical problems and digital solutions and using that to make really great, impressive things. So for example, my belief around technology is that it multiplies whatever it's applied to. sometimes I've seen that done in really negative ways, but I like to think of that as, especially when you think of sustainability, a way to maximize solutions really quickly and scale them up.
Cory Connors:Yeah, well said. And that's exactly right. And that, I think we're seeing that with AI technology that you and your team are using and, but we'll get into that. Let's talk about lime loop. what makes it unique in the reusable packaging space? I.
Chantal Emmanuel:Yeah, so for those who are unfamiliar, LimeLoop is a circular logistics company. So what we're really doing is reimagining the way that products move through the world and through the systems today, and really thinking about how can we replace single use systems with the reusable ones. So right now that starts with packaging if you wanna. Attack a system, you attack it through something that's ubiquitous, right? So no matter what product you're sending, where you are in the world, it's coming in a package. And so if you want a solution that scales and is really helping sustainability at large, you start with a thing that's, uniformly used throughout it. And so that's what, where we started with packaging today. so instead of a one and done system. It's really about turning that into a circular one. So what does that literally mean? we've created a suite of reusable packaging. and so anything from, small pouches to large, a large boxes that could be used to replace single use alternatives. and now where we're really focused on is building out that system to make packages move more easily through the system today.
Cory Connors:It's exciting. The opportunity is, huge and I understand, why It's growing. I think reusable is the buzzword now, a sustainable, it's the little brother or little sister of sustainable, people are talking about reusable packaging a lot or refill and those kinds of things have become very popular. So what you're doing, was way ahead of its time. really? I think so. Nice work on that. Thank you. I know it hasn't been easy. can you talk about some of the challenges you've ran into, developing these programs? I.
Chantal Emmanuel:And it's, the question that we asked ourselves a lot and especially in this past year as we started to think of, what's next for Lime Loop. and it's interesting 'cause we launched Lime Loop with the slogan of powering Reuse and somewhere along the way we got almost too hyper-focused in some ways on the packaging side of it and the product side of it, and creating a system that had, the best. Most durable, most sustainably made packets possible. But, and I wouldn't say ignore it, but maybe overthought how quickly the system can move to accommodate that packet. I'll see how to say that in an optimistic way. and, the, and so to directly answer your questions, the challenge is. Can be defined in one word as infrastructure, right? This, the system is not made to move things both to and from. And so suddenly we're asking people to solve for the same reverse logistics problems they're having to get their product back, but we're saying to do this for every single package that now needs to come back and go back into your flow. On top of that, we're telling consumers that, hey, you have to shift the way that you now interact with that package. And as much as. putting a package back in your mailbox is easier and better than having to break it down and recycling it. It's still a change, and anytime you have people change, you're gonna have to create the incentives and the programs and the time that it takes to have that realized.
Cory Connors:Exactly. And I think. As society, and I think, and I'm, we're both in North America. We were, raised with the milkman.
Chantal Emmanuel:Yeah.
Cory Connors:who or some of us were. and, or our parents. Or their parents. And it was the way that you did milk, you drank it, and then you put it on the front porch, and then the, you would get a new delivery, you wouldn't even notice. And, all of a sudden you had fresh milk in a glass bottle that would be reused dozens or hundreds of times depending on how many, and it was the way it was. And so when we went away from that to single use for convenience, or as we thought, ease of use, it's a significant challenge to retrain the population to go back to this old way. is that kind of what you're saying?
Chantal Emmanuel:Yeah, and in combination of that and just and understanding the time it takes to do that. And it's funny you mentioned the milkman. My mom from the island of St. Vincent and I was there a couple of weeks ago and I kid you not every morning, someone comes by with a car with fresh bread. Then someone comes by with a car, with a locally caught fist for the day. Someone comes by with a wheelbarrow of the fresh. Produce and it was this reminder to me that these systems do exist and it's a way of life for many people. And it's almost like, did we overcomplicate it in a way by trying to shake up the whole system versus just getting it really back to the root? And that's a lot of where we're going now is like, how do we start with meeting people where they are? Giving them that little transition, that little step into the, to making it more circular and so that you almost wake up and you don't even realize that you've changed because it 'cause in many ways, you haven't really had to change the way that you're doing things.
Cory Connors:It sounds like heaven to me to have like fresh fish and juice and milk. I'm just like, wow, that sounds awesome.
Chantal Emmanuel:Yes. Yeah, I think decentralized model is achievable and I think definitely the direction that we need to move in, in order to make sustainability work while still having access to the things that we need every day.
Cory Connors:Yeah. Well, you, you have an exciting announcement today. I think, I can't wait to talk to people about this, but tell us what's going on with Ly Loop. A big change I.
Chantal Emmanuel:Yeah, so like I mentioned, we and we're, the business is expanding, I will say not pivoting as this becomes a four letter word in a, in the startup, but the idea being that reusable packaging as we've defined it so far in terms of our more durable, lasting for about 50 up, trips. Has a time and place right now that makes more sense for folks who have either an existing two-way system. So think rental clothing rental companies, supply rental companies, closed loop B2B, so shipping things from a warehouse to a store and those kind of use cases. But what does it mean for the remaining, 165 billion cardboard boxes that are being shipped in, in the US every day? How can we. Look at those as the true assets as that they are and keep them in the system longer, right? Recycling is a great last resort for a box, but it to be when it's no longer useful in its current state. And how do we then go about facilitating that system to absorb those packages in a way, which is a long preamble for the packets loop. And Again, from that idea of like, it can be simple if the tools are there. So how do we leverage technology then to say, Hey, I have a cardboard box. I don't need it. Someone else needs it. How do I get this into the hands of someone else who needs it? So to two by four that we have developed an app. So think of it as a marketplace. So the participating brands will have a package loop logo on the box, and so think of it as an alternative action to the chasing arrows for recycling as a consumer. Then you can know, hey, this box is ready for reuse. Go on to the app. List that box, and then it could be paired up with someone who needs it. And so you could think it might be a local Etsy seller down the street who's gonna use it for fill orders. There might be a nonprofit who's going to use it for shipping goods and restocking in a store. There's someone out there that can use this really nice and really ready to use box, and we're just gonna create the tools to help you match together to make that a possibility.
Cory Connors:I love it. It's awesome. And I think, I, we talked about this, a month or two ago about, maybe adding something on there, little like a check mark, how many times it's been used or the life of this corrugated box has, dozens of times possible. have you tested how many times you could ship a corrugated box?
Chantal Emmanuel:Yeah, and it's not surprisingly, hasn't really been studied at large very much. and we think about it as a society, we never really thought about boxes in that way. the current understanding is that in an e-commerce mode, probably about three to five times, and then in a closed loop system closer to five to seven, before it starts to lose integrity because at the end of the day, a box is not useful if it can't protect, it's good at. If it breaks and the goods inside breaks, it's worse than if we had, the most durable box in the world. right. That's our space that we're making assumptions around. But when you think about it, one more trip, two more trips, any more trips than the single use that we see in those boxes could be huge for the sustainability. And that's another place that the app comes in. And that, to your point about tracking how many trips a particular box makes, we will then. Replay that data and those environmental stats to you through the app, and then still understanding there's a behavior change there. So building in incentives to that. So every time someone puts either lists the package or claims a package, they'll get points that they can use towards discounts towards future purchases. And so it's like a win, it's incredible win situation for people. You're getting it outta your house, you're getting it used, and then you're getting something back for that.
Cory Connors:Love that. I have to tell you a story. I posted a video on TikTok, maybe two years ago.
Chantal Emmanuel:Okay?
Cory Connors:And it was, Hey, why doesn't I. Amazon, offer a service where they will pick up all of our boxes that they send us. Yeah. The next time that they deliver to us. And it went crazy viral. Hundreds of thousands of views, tens of thousands of comments. Yes. Yeah. Tell me when you set this up, I want to participate. How do I sign up? and I seriously still get messages on that video. Has Amazon started this program yet? And I say, no, they haven't, but there's some coming. And so now we'll be able to talk about, package loop from Lime Loop.
Chantal Emmanuel:Exactly. And I, and being in it and working through it and setting up the partnerships, creating the app, all of that. I understand why it hasn't been done when it's. Not the main focus and core responsibility of a business, like we've made it our whole business and it's still a behemoth of a problem and a solution. people are right that it, it feels like a no-brainer. It is a lot of work and so we're really happy to be able to facilitate that so that anyone from an individual to the Amazons of the world can leverage us to, to implement that program.
Cory Connors:Sounds incredible. And like you said, 165 billion corrugated boxes shipping daily in North America.
Chantal Emmanuel:Yeah.
Cory Connors:Wow.
Chantal Emmanuel:How do you, like, how, like, think to wrap your head around that is, and I see it myself. I, a lot of people think that as the c TM co-founder of this company that I must not deal with boxes, and I'm like, oh, like, no, it's the opposite. Started this company to solve a problem that I was definitely contributing to and just wanted to see a solution to. And then on Garp Day realized that everyone else is seeing the same problem too. And so how do we facilitate a solution that works for everybody?
Cory Connors:So let's say I am Joe Consumer and I'm, I've got a stack of boxes in my garage. I go onto the app and I Post the details of how many I have and their general sizes, and then somebody will message me and, to pick them up, or is there a drop off point? How does it work?
Chantal Emmanuel:Exactly. so exactly as you said, you'll scan, take a picture. We're working on the next reason. We'll have an ai, app implemented to that so that you don't have to then manually then put in the descriptions. It'll take care of that for you. Awesome. But today it's just a couple of quick little, qualities to your point size. Then we have some rules around what can't be reused. As you can imagine, we wanna keep this to be a really safe, option for people. And then you have the option to have either a pickup or a drop off. So you can say, Hey, they're outside of this place, or you can have a one-to-one conversation and work through that. We make it really easy. So if anyone who's ever used like a Facebook marketplace or something like that kind of matches people together, it's it's as easy as something like that.
Cory Connors:That sounds incredible. I wonder if you could almost team up with some of the other companies, to really launch this like crazy. I don't know, may there's like a pickup services like rid Well, but I think what you're doing is brilliant. I actually talked about this idea with a friend years ago. We should do that someday, and we just never did. good for you. I'm proud of you. I'm excited for you here to support your journey there.
Chantal Emmanuel:Thank you. Yeah, and on that note, we are definitely looking to and open to partnerships and whether that's on, feeding packages into the system, using packages that are claimed, to your point, rid wells of the world who can help with the pickup and make that even more efficient, this is gonna be a network effect. No one can do this alone. And we are, we welcome and encourage those to join us in making this a really simple solution for folks.
Cory Connors:I think it's awesome. I think, and I see the industrial cases here. I see, a large volume of, I've had cus 27 years in the industry, I've had customers that would, get products shipped in and they had to debox it and then they would end up with pallets and pallets of the same box over and over again. Yeah. And to the point where they would even. give them to us to recycle them or resell them, to a local, provide them to a local charity or whatever the case may be. But reusing boxes is wonderful. Yeah. And it's, corrugated is incredible material and can be used many times.
Chantal Emmanuel:Definitely. Yeah. And we're excited to give them new life and make that easy too.
Cory Connors:Yeah. That's great. Well, is the app up and running? Is it something we can look at today? I.
Chantal Emmanuel:It is. So it is the Lime Loop app. So you'll see it in both iOS and React as well as, a web version of it. So I would say the easiest way in is to go to the ly loop.com. Okay. and that will have all the information you need. Brands have like a really quick orientation. individuals can jump on the app right away and start listing and claiming back boxes. Again, the overarching theme of this is simplify, simplify. And that's really how you see the greatest impact.
Cory Connors:I'm excited for this and I can't wait to see this be successful for you. Well done.
Chantal Emmanuel:Appreciate it. Yeah, no, we're really excited too. Again, it's many years in the making, taking all of the learnings and thoughts and things and the beauty of it again, is that at the end of the day, we came back to our original thesis is that we needed to power reuse. We always knew that to be true, and now we have a lot more understanding based on trial and error, about what that needs to look like.
Cory Connors:That's the way, right. This is packaging is a nearly a trillion dollar business. Yeah. And I don't think people understand that. Look around you. If where, wherever you are listening to this or watching this look around, you'll see packaging all over the place. And we need to figure out ways not only to recycle or compost, but to reuse. yeah. Exactly.
Chantal Emmanuel:Appreciate it.
Cory Connors:Thank you. Thank you Chantelle. Thanks for being on.
Chantal Emmanuel:Thanks for having me.
