Compostable Packaging with Rhodes Yepsen BPI Executive Director

https://bpiworld.org/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/bpicertified/posts/?feedView=all

Did you know California is working towards a ban on compostable packaging? 

If we don't act now this may be a huge challenge for compostable packaging in the future. 

It was a true pleasure to interview Rhodes Yepsen the Executive Director of the Biodegradable Products Institute. And there could be a bright future ahead! 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/cory-connors/

I'm here to help you make your packaging more sustainable! Reach out today and I'll get back to you asap.

This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022.

Transcript

Cory Connors: 0:00

Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guest is a longtime friend of mine and somebody I've been hoping to have on the show for many years, Mr. Rhodes Yepsen, the Executive Director of the Biodegradable Products Institute. How are you, sir?

Rhodes Yepsen: 0:16

Doing great, thanks. Thanks for having me, Corey.

Cory Connors: 0:18

Yeah, thanks for being on. Like, like we were talking about before we started, this is something that we've been trying to do for years, and it's great that schedule's finally worked out. And I think what you're doing at that, at BPI is incredible work and really important work for the future of sustainable packaging. And it's, it's something that a lot of people don't know very much about. So I'm excited to spread the word. but before we go into all that stuff, can you tell us about you? what got you to this point in your career?

Rhodes Yepsen: 0:48

Yeah, thanks. I went to Oberlin College, which is a liberal arts college in Ohio, and had dreams of being an environmental writer. after graduation, I traveled around and did different jobs working at a national park in Hawaii, working at a nonprofit in Washington, D. C. Working at a literary magazine in San Francisco, and then fortuitously landed a job at Biocycle magazine, close to where I grew up, as a writer and editor. Biocycle is a composting magazine, and that's where I really fell in love with compost as this, perfect sweet spot of all these different environmental topics and societal topics that I was interested in. Food waste and local food systems. climate change, plastics, and sustainable packaging. And, at BioCycle, I was able to dive into all of these subjects, research and write about them, and really hone my writing skills for an industry style publication. and that led me down the path of working with a variety of compostable packaging companies, and the role that packaging can play. In broader composting efforts and brought me to BPI.

Cory Connors: 1:56

Well, that sounds like the perfect background for your job. And, it's like you couldn't have written a better script. love it. Well done. And it sounds like you've been very focused on the environment your whole life and your whole career. Is that something that your, your family was very excited about? Or just grew up like, like me, in a place where they cared about that?

Rhodes Yepsen: 2:15

yeah, exactly. So I grew up in rural Pennsylvania. My parents met working at Rodale Press, which BioCycle is actually an offshoot of, and if you don't know Rodale, Rodale was the sort of founder of the organic ag movement in the US. So they had early publications about organic agriculture. Organic gardening and farming magazine. They have Rodale Institute where they did research and continue to do research around organic farming practices. And my dad continued to work while I grew up at Rodale or and various publications is an author and illustrator. writing books about heirloom vegetables and apples and berries. and so yeah, I grew up with this conservation mindset and wanting to have a positive impact and be a communicator to bridge these gaps on a variety of topics, that, relate back to healthy people and healthy planet.

Cory Connors: 3:08

Now you're making me hungry talking about all these delicious foods. I love it. let's talk about BPI. What is the Biodegradable Products Institute? What do you do there? What's the focus?

Rhodes Yepsen: 3:19

Yeah, BPI is the leading authority on compostable products and packaging. We're a member based non profit association, and we represent stakeholders across the entire value chain. So not just the products producers, but going back to the raw materials, so the biopolymers and paper companies, the packaging converters, the brands and retailers and restaurants who use those products and packages, the municipalities, and even the composters. Part of our effort to bring that whole value chain together is our mission to push and advocate for a societal shift to the circular bioeconomy. so our core areas of activity are on policy, standards, research, and science based certification, which is what we're most known for because that's where you start to see the words compostable and the BPI certification mark on increasingly more and more consumer facing products and packaging. and, the reason, that we bring all these groups together, and I think that BPI has started to grow a little bit more, is this focus on this intersection between the food waste problem and the packaging problem, right? food is the number one material in our landfills. And the ability to divert that food to composting is highly dependent on reducing contamination, such as through the redesign of non reusable, non recyclable food contact packaging.

Cory Connors: 4:40

I didn't know that about food waste. I knew I've heard the stat that average American produces about 1 pound of food waste per day per person, which is a massive and I don't know if that's still accurate or not. But, It sounds like an incredible volume of waste.

Rhodes Yepsen: 4:57

Yeah, it's billions and billions of dollars of lost potential, in the U. S. around food. there still are people who are food hungry, food insecure in the United States. and then we have all this food loss along the production and supply chain, going down to our households as well. So there's this massive economic issue. There's a climate change issue. There's a societal issue of hunger. and then when we think about that food, when it gets into the landfills, it's generating methane, which is an incredibly potent greenhouse gas and our soils. Our agricultural soils are losing organic content and organic matter. They're becoming less productive with, the regenerative agriculture movement, talking about. All these things that we could do very easily, low tech solutions to restoring our nation's soils to make them more productive, have the food be more nutrient dense and nutrient rich, and compost alongside no or low till agriculture and cover crops are these. critical pieces. and again, I think that's what excites me so much about the compost movement is, that it's not just one particular thing, right? It has these ties out to all these other issues, that we can work on together.

Cory Connors: 6:06

Well said. So you're, the BPI, the, your institute is focusing more than just on packaging. You're focusing on food waste, being composted and developing programs in cities and municipalities to compost food. is that what I'm hearing?

Rhodes Yepsen: 6:22

Yeah, you're hearing that that these items, it's not a product based solution. It's a systems based solution, right? And so when we think about similar to, I think, other topics that you've, covered on your podcast, right? sometimes it's a packaging innovation that's needed. And sometimes there are these other factors, right? Related to the success of recycling or reuse and refill systems. And so there's this massive infrastructure needed. And we need to make sure that things align. And so as a certifier and a policy maker, a policy advocator, we're able to piece these things together and set up some guide rails and best practices, and really advocate for more widespread composting because without widespread composting for that food problem, there is no ability for compostable products and packaging. to be collected and composted. Really, they are a subset of the compost, industry.

Cory Connors: 7:13

Yeah, that's a great point. It's, like you said, if food waste is the number one, material in the landfill, then that's the thing we need to focus on. And then packaging is an, and also, it seems to be an ancillary. Part of that, but it's still a huge part. if you've ever been to a facility that's handing out Packaging that isn't compostable. It can be very frustrating to be a part of that But there's some big laws coming up that I wanted to talk about some bombshells Really in the industry that are changing the way things will be packaged because of Legality. I know, California SB54 is, basically saying right now that compostable packaging is not allowed. And I know that you're in, you and your institute are working hard to change that or to get that fixed. Can you speak to that and tell the audience what's going on?

Rhodes Yepsen: 8:11

Sure. Yeah, I'd say, California has a lot of large policies, around composting and packaging that are well intentioned, and also very aggressive. they have the potential to positively, to potentially rapidly reshape. the state and move it towards zero waste. So I think it's important to know that, these are well intentioned laws, and they have a massive potential to move us forward towards, these changes that we all I think want to see, right? With widespread access to robust reuse, recycling and composting systems that work in practice, not just in theory. I think the problem is that these laws tend to be, highly complex. have timelines that don't line up, and that makes them fairly problematic. so under SB 54, one of the things that it's trying to do, this is a law intended to require a reduction in the amount of plastic produced, and then make sure that the remaining packaging All of it will have to be reusable, recyclable, or compostable in practice and at scale in a short order. It also provides a funding mechanism to help support those systems, right? Known as extended producer responsibility. So again, in these core elements, you'd be thinking, yeah, this is great. I'm so glad that this is California is doing this, but it's a super complex, Law and is having a lot of challenges getting implemented and specific to composability. within this law, it references back actually a pre existing law. That also has problems. So for compostable packaging in SB54, it says, you, among these other requirements, you have to meet the definition of compostable that California set under a law, Bill AB 1201. AB 1201 passed about five years ago. we were engaged on it. And most of what was in there was really positive. It actually mirrored a lot of criteria in BPI's certification program. For instance, saying that in addition to meeting the ASTM standards for compostability, you really should have them third party certified by somebody. It doesn't have to be by BPI, but by any of the certifiers in the world. You should label the product. It should be associated with materials composters accept, meaning We're not talking about sneakers. We're not talking about e commerce packaging. We're really talking about things that, again, help facilitate diversion of food from the landfill. These are things BPI has done for over a decade in California. Acknowledge those, put them into its law. A prohibition on PFAS. we're all nodding along at this, but then they throw in a ringer in this law that says, the compostable packaging must also be an approved input. for compost that's sold for organic agriculture. Now the reason they put this in place was, compost markets are not super robust in California. One of the more robust markets is for agriculture, right? a lot of food is grown in California, a lot of wine and vineyards, and that's a good market for compost. And they really like it to be organic approved. And so they put this requirement in there saying you, to, to encourage a change at the federal level, at the USDA level. the problem again is that a super narrow time frame and it's focused on this very niche aspect, of a NOP compost market rather than compost markets more broadly. And now the time frame is running out. And Compostable Packaging is set to be banned in 10 months in the state of California. All Compostable Packaging. You will not be able to use the word Compostable or a certification mark. Everything else that was good in that law gets erased. which is crazy when you think about Simple things like a food scrap collection bag, a staple for composting programs. If you want people to participate and you don't want microplastics in your compost, you allow them to use a food scrap bag, just like you allow people to put their trash in a plastic bag. but then, yeah, looking at SB54, how on earth are we going to meet this requirement that says all packaging, this major shift, has to be redesigned for Reuse, recycling, and compostability. If you take a third of the pathways away, and say, actually, none of it can be compostable. You have to recycle your way out of it for every single application, right? Lightweight, flexible food packaging, you have to figure out a way to make that work. No compostable alternative.

Cory Connors: 12:22

It's frustrating for all of us, and I can hear that in your voice that we're all trying to work really hard over here in the world of packaging and sustainable packaging more, more particularly, and there isn't that understanding at the government level of what we, what needs to happen to make their goals, a reality, it seems like, so rather than work with us and work with you and your team, they, it seems like they've chosen just to take a hard stance and say, well, you're not ready yet, so sorry.

Rhodes Yepsen: 12:53

Yeah, and I think, one of the things that it seems like there's just not a enough understanding for is that in these types of negotiations, these societal changes, everybody has to come to the table, everybody has to be willing to make some compromises, And you have to take the time to understand what the other sectors challenges are, right? What the time frames are that are realistic, the costs, things like that. And I think that this example of this law and this impending deadline, is a great example of not taking sufficient understanding and care. Of really what it's taken so far to grow the composable products industry to the small industry. It is today and how setting these deadlines to basically, interrupt all of that progress, right? It's sending these market signals to companies saying, this is not something you should invest in. it's not a stable market. And it's going to have irreparable damage, right? So beyond the cost of companies needing to update their packaging and products, which will take months or years, to get that out of the supply chain, millions of dollars per company, in some cases, to update the molds for their cutlery, to change things to meet this knee jerk law, in California, it's going to cause this horrible issue of how do you regain, how do you regain decades of momentum to get to this state?

Cory Connors: 14:09

Yeah, really good point. They, I don't think they understand that they're causing a lot of, Problems here for the future of compostables and specifically compostable packaging because that is Very much the sentiment in the industry is whoa. Take a break from that right now because it's not accepted yet it seems like a cart before the horse situation where preemptive bands like this can cause a lot of damage, especially when there's amazing products like NotPla and things that are totally, compostable, even, biodegradable in the sea. this is this kind of seaweed coating that Notpla worked on is incredible. And they have all kinds of sort of certifications globally that show that it's totally plastic free and Goes right back into the environment. So that's, in a good way for a change, right? I spoke to, it sounds like there's some potential good news coming though. I spoke to one of your board members, from Amy's kitchen, and he was talking about how there's a potential new law coming up that will make things better for composable packaging. Can you speak to that a little bit?

Rhodes Yepsen: 15:17

Yeah, I think, what Renault was talking about is this, what are the pathways to fix these issues? And so we are looking at all of the potential pathways. some are a regulatory, fix. so the law, that law AB 1201 has so long as progress is being made at the USDA level. We have a pending, application for that five year extension and have not gotten it yet. one of the things is looking at regulatory pressure. so we've been talking with CalRecycle, talking to the governor's office, right? Showing that you have the mechanism without a law, to fix this problem. and, provide sufficient time to resolve this at the federal level. But then the other pathway is legislative, right? And looking at bills that could come in and fix this requirement. Preserving the most important aspects of the compostable labeling law, but removing this NOP requirement. And so we've been working really hard to, with legislators to explain this issue to them, and trying to get bill language that would remove this National Organic Program requirement, and highlighting the need for compostable packaging to remain a viable label. legal pathway in California. the unfortunate news is we don't have a bill yet. so we've made progress towards getting, that language introduced, but haven't. And I think, there are a variety of reasons for that. And I think that's one of the reasons I'm so happy to be on the podcast with you today. I think that unfortunately with all of the world's problems, and the problems of packaging. Compostability sometimes, plays second fiddle. And I don't think a lot of people are aware of this deadline and how bad it is. we've started to raise the alarm bell with companies, across the sector, even if they're, not directly involved with BPI. So talking to the new material innovators and the big packaging companies saying, Hey, if you are working on compostable packaging, at this moment, you should speak up to California and ask for this five year extension. Talk to legislators about a bill that could remove this NOP language because otherwise that pathway is gone for you, right? It's not just bad for the existing compostable food service companies and bag providers. It's bad for you. The entire packaging industry, because almost everybody has something if, in the works around composed stability, as they're trying to figure out how they're going to meet these SB 54 goals.

Cory Connors: 17:32

Exactly. And these lead times for innovation take. Years, many times as, especially with larger companies, as a packaging consultant for the last 23 years, I can tell you these projects take very, significant, money and time and resources and, for a state, and I think the issue here is that California is so large, my thought is we need to all work together to make things better, more innovative, more, available, and, it seems like we, we should start with food, composting and make that more available. I, I would think that the food scraps are very valuable. to the organic, waste, composters. so why aren't governments, municipalities all requiring that to be, available curbside? where I live, it's not available, and I live in a very, blue state. Oregon is, very well known for, their environmental prowess. But, where I live, it's not available, but a few blocks down one way it is. So why isn't it available everywhere?

Rhodes Yepsen: 18:43

Yeah, it's a great question. And I think it depends on how deep you want to go on this one, Corey, right? I think that when you think about the broader economics of waste in our country, landfilling 10 is still inexpensive, and a profitable enterprise. And I think that this has had impacts on how, programs for recycling, and composting have rolled out in terms of. The access to the program, but also the success and viability of those programs, there are certain things that I think, occasionally need a little bit more governmental oversight and regulation. And I think this is one, and yeah, I think that in terms of composting, we know, that it will take billions of dollars of investment to be able to provide the same level of access to curbside composting as it is. Americans enjoy for recycling and trash today, and that's largely again due to the dynamics and the, of the waste industry. And so I think, extended producer responsibility will help with that. a portion of that. there will be, other targets that communities are setting that are helping drive more and more access to curbside composting programs. And, luckily they, Okay. Can look like a variety of different things. So similar to recycling, in rural areas, you can have, in addition to curbside programs, some municipalities are setting up drop off programs for composting. Great. And then there are a variety of subscription services. leave it to good old entrepreneurs to, try to fill in that gap, there are probably around a hundred, different cities that offer subscription services. so businesses that are. having consumers who really don't want to put that food in the trash can, and are willing to, and can afford to spend a little extra money. They can, sign up for one of these subscription services and, typically you get a bucket, right? maybe lined with a compostable bag and a list of what you can put in there and they'll come and pick it up for you for a fee. And a lot of them will deliver back finished compost to you so you can see the quality of the material that you helped contribute to. but yeah, it's a really frustrating thing. I think that, I really hope that we're able to figure out how we can make composting more widespread. And I hope that because food is so problematic, that organizations like ReFed, who really lead the way on, on the food waste topic, continue to grow and raise more awareness about. the potentials, of avoiding food waste,

Cory Connors: 21:07

what's that, called refed you

Rhodes Yepsen: 21:09

said, yeah, refed, they're an environmental nonprofit group, that, has done a lot of work supporting better data collection around the extent of food waste in the United States. And those are, they have great stats, and data reports, that come out fairly regularly tracking. whether that number is going up or down and the economic impact of it, they also do a really nice job of separating out where that wastage is happening along the value chain. So how much of it is in the household? How much of it is on the farm field? How much is in distribution? and then also separating out inedible food from edible food, right? Because again, like in the packaging world, right? Where sometimes there's this perceived tension between reusables and recycling and composting. And those of us in the know that's not competition. They're very, aligned, supportive goals. And I think similarly within the food waste movement, sometimes you'll hear, oh, well, we shouldn't be composting the food. We should just be saving the edible food, and saying composting is, not good, because we shouldn't have wasted that food. And it's saying, well, no, it's an and, it's not an or, right? We. We absolutely need to get edible food to, to people. but there is always going to be food waste, right? There's always going to be packaging that needs to be recycled and composted. but yes, absolutely, let's reduce how much of it, let's reuse what we can. so yeah, Refed is a great organization to check out.

Cory Connors: 22:27

I hadn't heard of, and I agree it's, and it's not, or in these situations we need to do both and many, there's, there has to be lots of outlets to, our waste. can you, give us a couple of those companies that will come to. Your house, I know, I'm familiar with Ridwell and Recyclops and TerraCycle that do, pick up, those hard to recycle items, but I haven't heard of, at home compost, pickup.

Rhodes Yepsen: 22:53

Yeah, and I would say one of them, called Compost Now actually has a map on their website where they help promote, other, programs in other cities. So Compost Now is a service, that, yeah, will collect your food scraps, compost it for you, bring you back some finished compost, and has some cool apps to help you really understand the impact of your participation. And then yet on their website to help promote this. composting movement. They have a list of all these other curbside, subscription services in other cities. so compost crew is another one, in the D. C. Baltimore area. Veteran compost, black earth, compost, compost crusader.

Cory Connors: 23:31

Wow. Lots of them.

Rhodes Yepsen: 23:33

Yeah. Moonshot Compost, Mission Compost. they're, Rust Belt Riders. There are, yeah, like I said, probably close to a hundred cities that don't have curbside programs offered by their city, but, have access to these subscription programs.

Cory Connors: 23:46

There's so much we can do as consumers, just as people to make the world a better place and you don't have to wait for the government to catch up and be ready. I think I love hearing about these private companies that are working hard to make the environment, better and to make it our impact as people less. of an impact, which is so great and what a good feeling to drop your compost items in a bucket and then a month later get, some dirt that you can grow new vegetables in or what a wonderful, circular system.

Rhodes Yepsen: 24:20

Yeah, it really is. And I think, so the last element, so you've got curbside, curbside programs and drop off programs offered by your city. You've got these subscription services. And then, people who are lucky enough to have a backyard to compost in can also compost in their backyard. Now, there's a slight difference there when it comes to packaging, backyard composting systems, Tend to be lower temperature, meaning that, not all items will break down in that home compost bin. It needs a different certification, and you really have to be, a dedicated home composter. You can't, home landfill your material. You have to give it some attention, to that compost pile if you want items to, to break down. But that's another pathway. So when you think about that, you're, it's again, yeah, I think it's a positive. News, right? That hopefully more and more people across the U. S. Have some mechanism to have access. And if they don't, I would say that's a perfect opportunity to go to your city council or your town council and say, Hey, have you seen these statistics from refed about all the food in our waste stream about the impact of methane? Can you help us with a pilot program? And a lot of cities, are willing to So we do work on pilot programs again, partnering with a local company to help collect material for, for six months or a year and kind of assess, what are the true costs of this, what would it take to build and site a composting facility in that area?

Cory Connors: 25:35

That's great. Thank you so much, Rhodes. This has been amazing. how do people get in touch with you and BPI?

Rhodes Yepsen: 25:41

Yeah, we're pretty active on LinkedIn, so I would say for sure follow BPI on LinkedIn to keep up to date on what we're working on. we have an annual summit, it's going to be held in September in Atlanta, September 16th through 18th this year. and then, yeah, we have, various, contact forms on the website if you need to get in touch with a real person.

Cory Connors: 26:02

Great. Thanks again, sir. Really appreciate this.

Rhodes Yepsen: 26:05

Yeah, thank you. I'm so glad we did it.