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Transcript

Cory Connors: 0:31

Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors and Brodie Vander Dussen, my fearless co host. Thank you all for joining us today. There she is. We've got an exciting show today about, the packaging school and about the cohort that we recently completed there with some amazing people. These are three of the stars of the, cohort that I'm very excited to, Get to know better and talk about this experience that we all had together. it's the 1st time we've ever done it. And it's really exciting. So we've got Carol Norris, the owner of saran packaging, and we've got Matthew Martin, the vice president of sales and innovation at pod pack, international. Welcome everybody.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 1:14

Hello,

Cory Connors: 1:15

thank you for joining us. we will start by asking you each a little bit about your backgrounds before we get into too much detail. Carol. If you don't mind going 1st, tell us a little bit about how you got to be where you are today.

Carole Norris: 1:28

Sure. Thank you. my name is Carol Norris and, I am an independent, consultant, Packaging, focused. I work primarily in the med device industry. I'm located in, the twin cities, Minneapolis, St. Paul, and there is a large, presence of medical device companies in this area, ranging from all sizes. and I just work with different teams, from fortune 100, all the way down to, Startups, with a few people and I provide, package support and development design and validation work.

Cory Connors: 2:02

Well done. That's very impressive. Yeah. We were very impressed with you. Yeah.

Carole Norris: 2:07

Wow. Someone's got to do it.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 2:11

Maybe not hard. Let me rephrase. I think that's a challenging industry that challenging infers that there's a solution out there and I'm confident that you're going to be the one to figure it out.

Carole Norris: 2:20

Yeah. Yeah. it's, it's interesting. So it's always every year there's something new and, innovative going on in the product. So you got to mirror that back in the packaging. So it's interesting.

Cory Connors: 2:32

Excellent. Matthew, your turn, sir.

Matthew Martin: 2:35

Thanks, Cory and Brody and Carol. I'm glad to be on this with you guys. Matthew Martin here. I worked, at Pot Pack International. We're located in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. started in 1996. The company did. I didn't start working here until I've been here for 19 years, mainly on the operation side of things. in the last 19 years, I've seen a lot of different changes in coffee packaging, especially single serve. It has grown quite a bit. And with that growth, there has been questions about. The products being in the market, are they sustainable or not? So what we found is we doing very similar things that are traditionally out there and the material itself might be recyclable. But is it getting recycled? We're having a lot of questions about when it arrives at locations. Is it really getting sorted or not? So we also took an avenue of looking at composable products. And I'll have single serve options in that. So we're very, excited about where this can go and excited about talking about it here and doing things like the packaging school. So really good stuff.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 3:36

That's great. I think, I can't even imagine the amount of number, like the number of, coffee pods or tea pods or hot chocolate pods or, that are out there. that is a life necessity in my household. So I can't imagine how many are out there. And it's like Carol, it's a really big challenge, not a problem challenge to face. I think that's It's really refreshing and gives me hope to hear people are out there like solving these challenges. you mentioned packaging school. How did you hear about that? I was lucky to be a part of the cohort with you guys. but I heard about it from Cory, as he is, was our professor for our cohort. How did you two hear about it? and what made, what stood out to you to make you guys sign up?

Matthew Martin: 4:20

Okay, so I, you, I've been following glory for, 6 months or so, because I'm trying to find more sustainable experts and thought leaders in the industry and saw this packing school come up and he was recommending it and he was going to be leading it. I was like, I ran and got approval to take school and it was a no brainer for me.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 4:40

Yeah, what about you, Carol?

Carole Norris: 4:42

Yeah, so I guess Cory has a lot of followers. I think, I, I follow, Cory, or I get the newsletter, and then, I might have also received a publication from or a notification from the packaging school. I've never taken a class with them before, but, I've been interested in, continuing my education and, like the most convenient format possible. And I think, I jumped on this 1 because, it's really an area that I want to learn more about. And it just really seemed to fit what I needed. So I jumped on it, while it, once I saw it was available and I'm really happy. I did

Matthew Martin: 5:24

also say to, sustainability is such a broad term. So as a manufacturer, I'm thinking I've got to make solutions that are sustainable with packaging, but it's helping me see just from the school, like how important, like sustainability goals for certain companies are and how does our packaging help support those goals? Cause that's the end, that's really the solutions. How do we get. Stakeholders for those companies feeling good about investing in this type of packaging to help their sustainability goals. Yeah.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 5:54

For those who are listening to this podcast, I was snapping along an agreement. Oh, no one can see me do that, but. I definitely agree.

Cory Connors: 6:02

that was perfect. We'll have to come up with a, like a sound. That's the, the, the improvement, the snap along. we agree with what you're saying. Yes. We'll come up with something. Brody and I'll create that as a co host. I think what I heard you both say in my interpretation of was that the course was convenient to take. And because you could squeeze it into your day. In micro sessions, and I think that's what drew me to the course to the school, frankly, to the packaging school. not that it's accredited by Clemson. That's great. But that it could that the content is great and that I can watch. 3 minutes or 7 minutes or 30 minutes if I have longer and feel like I'm making progress, I don't know if you're like me and you saw that percentage number grow slowly growing and you just felt so accomplished. Like I'm at 20 percent today. I'd love to hear your thoughts Carol to start on the process of taking the course. Would you agree with that?

Carole Norris: 7:07

Yeah, so I would agree with that. And then I think, in a similar vein, I can also, another route of getting information is going to a conference. But what I find happens is, information overload. So what would be like a Two and a half day conference, I can't take in more than like a day and a few hours. Right? So 10 hours and it's not, it's all great information. It's just overload. And I, myself, I need to process information in order to retain it and, make it something useful. I always think of, what can I, what can be processed? Incorporated into my set of tools that I can bring to, my clients and, once I hit a point of overload, or where I can't process it, which, is not sitting in a conference and just listening is, is like, Getting some of the information, sitting down with a group of people and talking through it, hearing their experiences, my experiences, and then just growing the information into like concepts, I'm able to retain that. So it's, part of it was a learning system, and getting the information in small doses, but then it's also, reinforcing it every week by the group meeting. So that's what I really enjoyed about it. I did not realize how much, I was going to enjoy that until we got it. Got into the course for a few weeks, but I found that to be really beneficial.

Cory Connors: 8:45

Thank you. I totally agree. and the feeling of, going over the material again with a group is, like you, I'm a little bit of a slow learner, meaning I, I need to cover things in a couple of different ways, like visually and then audibly. and then it's oh, then I'll remember it forever. But, I think you're exactly right. this was a nice, the cohort, that, Julie and the team at, the packaging school came up with was a really brilliant idea. So how about you, Matthew? Did you enjoy that process?

Matthew Martin: 9:15

Yeah, I thought Carolyn bring a great point. what it's like going to a conference and then having this broken out over sessions, we did to truly, sit on it and to be able to discuss it with other people in the class was, I thought, very. Different and very, more impactful because there are times where I'm like, oh, that's a great idea to seminar or a conference and I'll forget about it. I'll write it down. I don't have time to go back and look at it. this really brought me to. Okay, really look at it and think about what I'm going to bring up at the weekly meetings, but also hear other people's input and being prepared because sometimes you can sit there and just I just heard the information. I don't know how to give input yet. I think that was a really good way to do it and, and it's not, we'll say it's not a, just a 30 minute session a week. you got to put some time into this homework for it. And I thought the way the homework was. It was very good. The visuals, the aids, the, some of it was videos. Some of it was presentation, just very smooth. And I like the time. It wasn't 20 minutes on 1 subject. Every time it was mainly 3 to 7 minutes. So I really appreciate that.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 10:19

Yeah, go ahead, Carol.

Carole Norris: 10:21

Yeah, I was gonna say, the one thing with the cohort, so I was the only person in there with, the medical product background, which, which is great, because I, there was some information that was presented that, I didn't really, I couldn't really see from the lens of the work I do necessarily. But to hear somebody talk about it from their perspective and how it impacts their work or their industry, or, even their position. We had, a variety of people, with different perspectives and it's, It's good to hear people talk about what, what they're thinking and what their problems are to put, some meat on the bone of the information that you're trying to process. So, the cohort was great. So I really liked it.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 11:06

Yeah, I was actually going to ask you guys what your favorite parts of the cohort were and I think actually that might just to start us off that might have been mine. I think hearing. All the information I felt was super digestible and easy to understand, presented in a way that's different than conferences where the conferences are high level, maybe even kind of niche. But I felt like the information was easy to understand, easy to digest. But my favorite part by far was the actual meetings and getting to hear from people going through the same cohort. Or similar, maybe similar positions to what I have or what my role, but really honestly, even the different ones and understanding what their problems are, what they're hearing, what they're solving, what their questions are, what they're struggling with. that was really helpful or. Questions even to ask Cory of what Cory thought, things that like, obviously I get to talk to Cory all the time, but I didn't get to ask his perspective on, and I really appreciated that. Matthew, could you start us by telling us like what your favorite part was? I know we just talked about all these really great things, but, if there's something that stood out to you.

Matthew Martin: 12:11

Yeah, I agree. The group discussion was probably my favorite. but the content I would say that got me really thinking was, I guess the UN guidelines where that typically is a very overwhelming thing to look at because it's 18, I think different sections. And you're just like, I don't even know which one as a company we would pick who were discussing the sustainability of how this will help the company. I don't even know which one it was that breakdown on, on, the class section was. Very helpful, just to start understanding things. I loved hearing about the EPR things as well. Again, it was more of the subject matters. I wasn't, knowledgeable and learning more about it. And hearing that feedback from the other attendees was real important.

Carole Norris: 12:52

Yeah. Yeah, oh, sorry, for me, you know, I think taking a step back and thinking about, like, why I felt like I needed to take a, some training or a class was that, getting all the information piecemeal, it was, I've always had a hard time figuring out how I can actually move in a, Like a direction that would be really impactful. And I think the class as a whole, what I really was looking for was like a kind of a broad overview that also pulled in like details and, what is sustainability? What, how does packaging play a role in it? How, I, And I understand the concepts of, like life cycle analysis and, certain, switching from some type of material to a different type of material and what the benefits are, but, but just like really getting a good, overview of what sustainability is and then being in a class with people who also wanted that. I think, I just sometimes I feel like I should know more and I need to present to people that I know more. and I think walking into the class, everybody was on the same page, for the most part, and had the same goals in mind. So it just made it easier to like, sit, go over the course material and then sit and talk to everyone. It was, a safe place to dip your toe in the water.

Cory Connors: 14:22

I love that. Yeah, that's what it felt like. It felt safe. It felt comfortable and it was a really diverse group in many ways, from young, brand new people to the industry to, many years in the industry and like you said, medical packaging all the way to coffee pods like Matthew does all the way to industrial and retail packaging like we do and across the board. really insightful did you feel like, more than just the information you learned? Did you feel like you made connections with the people that were in the course enough to where you could reach out to them in the future? Carol? Yeah.

Carole Norris: 15:01

Yeah. I think so. I think, yeah, that's a. The first day we did introductions and I wrote everybody's name down. I feel as though if I were to reach out to anyone, they would be more than happy to have a conversation with me. We're it was only half an hour a week, but I feel like we all are, on the same team a bit.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 15:18

Yeah,

Cory Connors: 15:21

Matthew.

Matthew Martin: 15:22

Yeah, I agree. I actually made some contacts with some that have been in the group and obviously some that you mentioned to me outside of the group. So I just think building this network of people who are trying to do. I we're all in sustainability packaging, we're trying to do something better. How do we get it? the customer understands, and we truly do it, we got to work together and build that network. So I think that was definitely accomplished. Yeah,

Brodie Vander Dussen: 15:45

I love that. I love the network idea, like the thought of it becoming a network of people, really built on that safe space to ask maybe what feels like a silly question in the moment, but really, other people are like, well, yeah, I'm glad you asked that because I that question too. I think. If there was somebody who was considering to do this, would you recommend it? What would you tell them about it? What, what would you if I came to you and was like, I don't know if I should do this. I saw this because I follow Cory Connors on LinkedIn and tick tock and all the places. Should I do this? what would you say?

Matthew Martin: 16:19

I would definitely recommend it, especially those in the packaging space. I'm also thinking about. Our customers, there's other people in the coffee space, how maybe it's a good start to understand what sustainable sustainability is and how it can affect their companies. I would definitely give them that elevator pitch of saying, definitely go do it because I'm looking forward to the part 2 of it.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 16:40

yeah, me too.

Carole Norris: 16:42

I didn't I didn't even think about it until you just said it Matthew, maybe non packaging, professionals, Recommending this course because it's, it's not overwhelming. and, I think I've had a lot of conversations with people trying to explain to them, it's really challenging to make these changes and to take everything in and try to sort it out. And, even the labeling part, I explained to somebody that, what you put on a package is regulated and you can't do it willy nilly and you have to include certain information. And then we're adding this whole other layer with, any. Sustainability claims or related and they were like, really, that's a thing. And it's yes, it's it's a big thing and it's only a small piece. yeah, I, yeah, that's a, I would expand upon or expand beyond packaging people.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 17:36

Yeah, I think even in our cohort to speak to the diversity that Cory mentioned earlier, we had people who were entrepreneurs and then we had people who worked in corporate. Packaging companies like myself. and I think that everyone gained a lot from that, as they're developing their own, I think it was like a coffee company was somebody in our team. And, as he's building out his own packaging, like this is what peaked his interest. And I think that. Yeah, I love that. I think that it's really applicable for everybody. It's just has to touch packaging, which in fact is everybody. Right.

Carole Norris: 18:14

Yeah, that's the interesting thing. the, small companies in the startup space you have, you would think, it's, they're usually companies with only a handful of people and they're wearing a lot of different hats, but. Personality wise, those are people who are really eager for information and I think that's why we had, I can't remember his name off the top of my head. But, but, yeah, that's why you would see them in a, in a course like this. But yeah, I think, I don't know, I guess I would recommend the class to anyone if they're even remotely interested, because if you're interested, you should be doing something about it. And I think it was a really accessible class. Right. It's just, it was flexible. It's not trying to carve out. 2 days where you're where you leave work and you have to travel. and, it's right there. So

Brodie Vander Dussen: 19:05

agreed. Well, well said,

Cory Connors: 19:09

yeah, it's exciting. What an opportunity for people. And 1 more thing I'd like to ask each of you to tell us the best way for people to get in touch with you. if they would. Are looking for, Carol's wisdom or Matthew's wisdom. can you tell us what's the best way to reach out to you?

Carole Norris: 19:25

For me? you can reach out to me on LinkedIn. I make it a little hard to get in touch with me for some reason, not on purpose, but, I think that's probably the easiest way and it's, Carol Norris and Sirron packaging, Suran is Norris backwards, so I

Cory Connors: 19:45

can't believe I didn't notice that. Yeah. Yeah. How about you, Matthew? What's the right, what's the best way?

Matthew Martin: 19:52

LinkedIn is a great way. Matthew Martin with PODPAC. It's spelled P O D P A C K. Some people drop the C or something, but it's PODPAC. You can also reach me. My email is mmartin at podpac. com as well.

Cory Connors: 20:10

Thank you both. We'll put those links in the show notes so that people can get in touch with you through this show. So if you're listening, scroll up and click those links and you can reach out to these amazing people. And also hope to see you all at the second version of this, part two if you will. And if you're listening, sign up for part one in the fall. This will be, we're going to do this again in, Soon very soon, so we'll hopefully post this podcast right away. So people can hear about this right away. Thank you. All appreciate your wisdom.

Carole Norris: 20:46

Thank you.

Matthew Martin: 20:47

guys.