First Time Ever Co Host Brodie Vander Dussen

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brodievanderdussen/ 

First show ever with a co host! This is the introduction to my long time friend and co worker Brodie Vander Dussen. 

What does Gen Z think about sustainable packaging? 
How has social media transformed the need for more sustainable packaging? 
What can we do to be more sustainable as consumers? 

Check out our sponsor Orora Packaging Solutions 
https://ororapackagingsolutions.com/

https://specright.com/?utm_campaign=2024%20Influencers&utm_source=cory%20connors&utm_content=home%20page 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/cory-connors/

I'm here to help you make your packaging more sustainable! Reach out today and I'll get back to you asap.

This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022.

Transcript

Cory Connors: 0:31

Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors and my very good friend Brody Vander Dussen. we are, for the first time in the history of this show, we have a co host and she's an amazing person and she is my friend. We've worked together a very long time. She is a sustainability wizard and she's Gen Z, which is only appropriate for this episode. I'm not as concerned about that for the future, but Brodie , welcome. Thank you for joining.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 0:59

thanks Corey.

Cory Connors: 1:00

We're so excited.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 1:03

I'm excited. I've been a longtime listener, longtime fan. Long time friends. So we

Cory Connors: 1:11

spent many times, lots of time together and, doing different events in the packaging space, traveling the country, Texas and Chicago and, New Orleans and all these different sustainability events. And I think that's what I talk about a lot on these shows. So having you on as a co host is going to be so very valuable. So when you agreed to doing this, I was very excited. So thank you.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 1:36

Well, I was very flattered that you asked. This is something that I think is, I'm really passionate about, sustainability in general, but sustainable packaging. I just feel like such a nerd about in the best way. I learned so much from your podcast, so I'm excited, excited to be here and excited to, yeah, learn more from all the people you have on here and, spread the word.

Cory Connors: 1:57

I think we, make a good team. So let's see how this goes. And we will we don't know if this will be a weekly thing or a monthly thing or every time thing, but it's going to be a really cool surprise when it happens. or long time, event, so,, before we get to anything further though, I want to talk about you. I wanna learn a little bit about Brody. What, where, what's your background?

Brodie Vander Dussen: 2:20

Yeah. So I'm from Northern California, originally, Sacramento area, moved down to Southern California for college, stayed down here because I found a, Really cool company down here in packaging. I started in marketing about six years ago and, marketing means a lot of things. It's funny. I'm in college. I majored in business management because I, even though I loved marketing, I thought it was really cool. I love the class. I just felt like I wasn't creative enough to do marketing. which I think is really interesting. Marketing means so much after being there for so many years, I got to work on so many different projects, different team members, different companies, even in the packaging space, and really understanding that marketing is creative, but creativity is a muscle that you can strengthen that you flex that it's a continuous thing. It's not like a black or white characteristic. So it's been really cool to work in marketing and then now be in sustainability. it's been even cooler. I think packaging is the definitely part of the problem when we talk about sustainability, but it's definitely part of the solution too. So, Getting to talk about it with customers and just my team trying to find ways to communicate it better has been a lot of fun. Honestly, hard work for sure, but a lot of fun

Cory Connors: 3:46

and I can attest to how hard you work and how. high quality your work is, you've done many things for me in the past, and I really appreciate it. and it's interesting to me how similar marketing and sustainability are. And I say that with the most respect to both disciplines, marketing is not a goal. You, it's not oh, we accomplished that we've marketed our product and I think I relate that to sustainability the same way because sustainability is not a goal. You're not all of a sudden sustainable. It's a progression. You are getting better. You're marketing to more people. You're reaching more people. You're getting more sustainable. you're reducing your carbon footprint, whatever the case may be. But is that kind of how you feel? Marketing and sustainability as a relationship.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 4:36

Yeah, I like that. I like the concept of a journey. There's no destination. I think, yeah, there's no, No way to plant your flag and be like, I've made it. This thing is marketed and I'm done. I'm going to walk away. And the same thing with sustainability, there's no destination and you can just be more sustainable. You can just have better marketing and communicate your product or service or whatever you're trying to market better. it's continuous, which I really like. Actually. I think that if there was a destination, Be boring, like getting to continuously innovate and be, again, be creative, I think is really cool.

Cory Connors: 5:16

Yes, I agree. And your role is the sustainability program manager at Aurora packaging solutions, which is a long title, lots of words, which means you're very important, obviously, and I've been at Aurora for 22 years and you've been there for six years or longer. And, can you tell us about that role? What is specifically does that do?

Brodie Vander Dussen: 5:40

So like marketing sustainability program manager, means a lot of different things and it definitely means something different depending on the day. my specific role, I lead our magazine, our sustainably packaged magazine, which is really cool. My role is really a hybrid of marketing and sustainability, which I love. I love that I don't get to lose that creativity, and I still get to find ways of marketing sustainability while also still advocating for sustainable packaging solutions, wherever that looks like. So, between the magazine, I also do our, help lead, And manage our sustainable design lab up in San Jose, helping with tours and customer events and the materials library up there helping with material suggestions and consulting with customers. also all of our sustainability events, so, you mentioned the SPC shows or green biz or, any of the other conferences out there. There's so many great ones. And so I help. Really coordinate or more as involvement in that as well as we have some internal shows like, we did a sustainable sustainably package summit in December last year. I think we're going to do something again this year. and then we're bringing the lab on the road. So we went to Mexico. We're going to Chicago. we've got some other big cities on the map, all of that. If it's sustainability and marketing, it's. It's me,. Cory Connors: It's And what you and Chris Bradley and the whole team have done. and I'm, I get to be part of that sometimes, which I truly enjoy. working with all of you. It's such a pleasure and such an honor. it's totally transformed, the way we do business and in the best way. Yeah. I think we're finally seeing, the fruits of those labors and, we're seeing that. Getting that reputation in the industry to be so so focused on sustainability. People are coming to us as experts and that's exciting. And it's a real honor because we've worked really hard to earn that, And I think similar to, we talked about marketing and sustainability is not a destination. I think that. You want to call it thought leadership in this space too is not there's no destination. I think what's cool about sustainability is that things are moving so fast and there's so much going on that I love the part of my job that I get to go and, look through all the newsletters and all of the new packaging awards and go through and see what's new, what's cool, what are people, what challenges are people solving and, help bring that into conversations with customers. So

Cory Connors: 8:15

Yeah,

Brodie Vander Dussen: 8:16

I want,

Cory Connors: 8:17

I do want to, and I agree, I want to talk to you about your research methods and, in your age group, a very popular thing is social media and it's something that I do as well. I'm a little bit older than you. And, people would, might be surprised to learn that I'm on tick tock. And, but I talk about,

Brodie Vander Dussen: 8:37

yeah.

Cory Connors: 8:38

All the things, yeah, as somebody in my mid forties, it's strange for me to think about myself as a social media, influencer. it's weird. But, I also, I enjoy it because I'm spreading the message about sustainable packaging and how we can all make a difference. And I wanted to get your opinion On how you feel social media has affected sustainable packaging or vice versa.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 9:03

Yeah, I feel like Sustainability. Social media is a really great platform for so many things. I think the concept of viral, something going viral is really interesting for better for worse. Right. but I think we also see a lot of influencers or just normal people doing like product reviews on tick tock where, not only the product quality, but the packaging design, functionality, all of that. Is being put under a microscope that has been in the past. People have used packaging for forever, right? But at this level where someone has. millions of followers going Oh, this packaging, like why this packaging is either Oh, it's nice and heavy. it feels luxury or it's, this packaging won't produce the product the way I want it to, or it came broken. It's at a level where we haven't seen that before. And it's, automatically in everyone's hands. It's not just the magnitude. Of that message going to so many people, I think is a really interesting concept. And so when it comes to packaging in general, it's shifted. I feel like in my opinion, it's shifted towards this extension of content and marketing strategy. Where, yes, it was before you want to pay attention to your colors and your branding. And that's important. It's always been important, but at this magnitude, it has now taken a whole different Level of importance, I would say, and specifically even going marketing towards the next generation. Like we mentioned, Gen Z is the next generation of consumers and they care about sustainable packaging. They care about companies that are aligned with their beliefs and values. So, when it's at that microscope level, or that, everyone's paying attention to it. That's where I think social media and sustainable packaging meet. Where we have to be catering towards that next generation.

Cory Connors: 11:07

Very true. Very true. The power that, that your generation has is impressive. And I think companies are so hyper focused on, okay, what are these younger generations going to say about this kind of packaging? Are they going to like it? Are they going to give us bad reviews? Are they going to say, this is great? Are they going to be supportive? do you feel like it's like the power has shifted a little bit from the company to the consumer? I

Brodie Vander Dussen: 11:36

think that's a really great question. I don't know if I feel like the power has shifted as much as I feel like the responsibility has shifted. I feel like this next generation is. Bringing a wave of eco advocates, which is amazing. I'm proud to be a part of that, but I found the statistic as I was like thinking through, how in my research, the 73 percent of Gen Z are willing to pay more for sustainable products, but 56 percent of Gen Z believe that businesses should take responsibility for environmental issues. And so it's more than just we want to pay more for it. We want those products, but really shifting that responsibility back onto the businesses to say, yes, I will do my part to recycle, but you guys need to be giving me something that I can recycle. Because there's only so much a consumer can do. It has to be every part of that life cycle, all in alignment and agreement of how thinking through how to make the whole thing sustainable.

Cory Connors: 12:38

That's it. we have to make it easy. when I say we, packaging companies or professionals, we have to make it easy. We have to explain to these people. Brands, how to make their packaging simple to recycle or reuse, or remove totally, that's possible sometimes, which is fun. but I think it's getting to a point now where I feel like we've reached a tipping point where packaging has to be sustainable. It's not, should we do the, should we care about this? It's, how do we do it? And with how far do we push the envelope? that's an exciting time to be a part of this. Don't you agree?

Brodie Vander Dussen: 13:19

I totally agree. And I think even while, there's a wave of consumers who are asking, for advocating for it, championing these sustainable products. There's also another way of coming from the different directions towards brands that I think we'd be remiss without mentioning is all of the regulations and standards and taxes and laws that are coming down the line, that are really putting that responsibility back on businesses too. And so I think if you don't care about sustainability, okay, if you don't care that your customers care about sustainability, okay, but eventually we have to make a change because you'll, you will pay for it. The brands will pay for it. And so how do we find ways where. You don't have to, and we, it's a win, win across the board. Not only does your brand do better, cause you have brand loyalty from a whole new wave of consumers that are figuring out what they want and trying out new products. Like that to me just feels like an easier win where now it can't, and for the first time, In a long time, sustainable products might be cheaper than more sustainable products, which is, again, a really exciting time to be in. I think innovation comes from a time of need, right? Where it sounds like we need sustainable products. So

Cory Connors: 14:39

yeah.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 14:39

I, there's so many things on the market that I'm excited about. So it's cool. It's a cool time to be in the space.

Cory Connors: 14:45

You and I are both big fans of reusable packaging and refillable packaging. And I was thinking about it, the other day thinking, That is without a doubt the best loyalty program in the world for I mean you sell you provide them with the receptacle and then you're just providing the refills or the You know the insert whatever it is. That's much less packaging Doesn't it feel like that like you're part of a loyalty program?

Brodie Vander Dussen: 15:17

Yeah. Yeah, that's a really great way of putting it. I think You I mean, it's no secret that loyal customers, repeat customers are the cheapest customers you will ever have. You spend significantly less on marketing for loyal customers than you do getting a brand new one. So using things like reusables and refillables, not only is it a good experience as a consumer and something that we want, I'd rather have something that feels again, going back to that luxury product feels good. I am excited to have it on my counter and I can just refill it rather than buying a whole new one and throwing the whole thing away. It's. It's like a really cool loophole, I think.

Cory Connors: 15:58

Oh, I like that. It feels like that. It feels like a loophole. Like you're getting away with something. you're not doing what everybody else is. you're innovating, you're trying something different. It's so cool. I like that a lot. So can you give us an example or something, where brands are doing a good job with communicating with Gen Z on being more sustainable?

Brodie Vander Dussen: 16:20

Yeah, I think, there's some really cool products out there that fill that kind of reuse refill model. Now that we're talking about it. I think that's an easy example. I feel like I'm seeing more and more of the refill and refill model than in like concentrates.

Cory Connors: 16:37

Yeah.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 16:38

Specifically, I feel like I'm seeing a huge rise in these Shampoo and conditioner bars, rather than the actual full bottle or, concentrates of dishwasher. So, all of these care products, home care products. I personally buy those because I still care about the brand. I want the brand quality, but I don't want to buy a whole new thing. So, I think things like, dip hair care does a really great job of those bars and.

Cory Connors: 17:07

Love this.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 17:08

Yeah. big fan. One, they're so easy to travel with. So that, but then, trying to, there's, grove collective does a really great, they had their, refill concentrates for their products that I thought was really cool. I like using something that I've, I know is going to work in my house, something that it's going to smell good. And that is just. One less giant thing to carry and I think they come in glass bottles, too. So it's easy to recite, right?

Cory Connors: 17:37

They do and blue land is the same similar kind of thing the dip Conditioner bar that we bought I think has lasted like eight months and it's just now seriously and you know my it's a family thing. I mean We haven't bought a bottle of, plastic bottle of conditioner in over a year. And, Kate and, Jonathan Azaroff, the founders, it's a family company out of New Jersey that, this is great people and I've, they've been on the show, once or twice. And, they're constantly winning awards for, innovation and doing great things because she, they, I should say we're so focused on making a quality product. That was sustainable, not just making a sustainable product. And that's why I'm totally loyal to that brand.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 18:28

And I think too, that even speaks a little bit to greenwashing where it's not enough to just make something sustainable. As much as I wish that was the case, it has to be still a quality product, because if I get it, it's not quality and I have to throw it away and buy something new. It's no longer sustainable. So it's some, it's not something that we're looking, sustainability is not the enemy or the opposite of quality. It is really, truly a companion piece and a compliment. Complimentary.

Cory Connors: 18:59

That's good. I'm posting that. That was really good. Check. Where's the ding bell when I need it? That was really perfect. Yeah, that was great. Well, this has been awesome. I'm, I think a successful first co host episode ever, and congratulations, Brody. Anything else you want to tell us about you or about, sustainable packaging before we close this out?

Brodie Vander Dussen: 19:23

just that I'm happy to be here. Cora, you have a gift of talking to people and bringing out the best stories and the best in people. So excited to be a part of this ride that you've built. I'm looking forward to what's to come. I think that we're in a really exciting time, not only in the packaging space, but then also as you and I have talked about this podcast and what that could be. I'm. Excited. I think it's just all uphill where it's looking up. I'm looking.

Cory Connors: 19:53

There's a, yeah, it seems like it's only up from here. I think that's, yeah, you're exactly right. Because we must improve, our sustainability. We must, do better for this planet and for our future generations. It's, it's what motivates me every morning, getting up and thinking about, the next generations and their next generations and, how we can do a better job today, to make things, more sustainable for them. Yeah,

Brodie Vander Dussen: 20:22

I'm excited to see how marketing and sustainability play into that. I think that there's, it's a tag team effort. honestly, it's a tag team effort between sustainability, marketing operations, procurement, where it's everybody has to be a part of that conversation. And I think it's important and it's worth the time and investment in order to do so. I think not only because it's necessary and it's the right thing to do, but also it's what consumers are looking for and it's what we're going to be taxed if we don't or, given fees if we don't. So

Cory Connors: 20:58

it's an exciting time. Carrots and sticks are coming. Yeah, there's lots of different things, lots of different positives from moving towards this and lots of different negatives if you don't. And so we'll pay attention to. To both of those things and make sure everybody's aware of them. But thank you again, Brody. I really appreciate you. how do people get in touch with you? LinkedIn? email.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 21:21

Yeah. LinkedIn is great. my last name is super long, so I'll put the email in the description. I won't spell it for you.

Cory Connors: 21:28

Yeah. Great. Well, thank you all again. Appreciate this and, looking forward to the next episode. We co host.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 21:35

Yeah, me too.

Cory Connors: 21:37

Thank you.

Brodie Vander Dussen: 21:37

Thanks.