CEO Prashant Jagtap (Trayak)

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This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022.

Transcript

Cory Connors: 0:31

Welcome to sustainable packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guest is my friend, Mr. Prashant Jagtap, the founder, president, and CEO of Trayak. How are you, sir?

Prashant Jagtap: 0:42

I'm pretty good, Corey. And thanks for having me on the podcast.

Cory Connors: 0:46

I am honored to have you on and have you as a sponsor as well. I should mention that. this is a exciting, innovation that you and your team have come up with in the industry. I can't wait to talk about it. It's something I tell people about all the time. so when it came up, to partner, I said, absolutely can't wait to do it. And, I'm really honored to be a part of your team and talking about this. But before we get to all of that stuff, let's talk about you a little bit. What's your background?

Prashant Jagtap: 1:15

Cory, by education and training, I'm actually a mechanical engineer and I've done a lot. Yeah, a lot of like manufacturing systems, engineering. So I know a little bit about a lot of different manufacturing processes, but really, for the last 20 years, what I spent a lot of time on was helping implement software systems for companies to, design and launch product and packaging. as designing and launching something, can be multi year processes, a lot of complications, lots of things, to really, to look at. And, I did that so that companies can do it efficiently digitally, so that they can design a lot of things up front, and work out all the issues with it in a digital way by doing simulations and things like that. So product lifecycle management is what it's typically called, and I worked a lot of, a lot in that area. And I worked with different industries in that area too. So consumer packaged goods, a lot of work there for, appliances, heavy machineries, automobiles, various things, And that P& G is in our backyard here in Cincinnati. So I've spent many years, in many parts of their businesses also helping them, work through that. So that's my experience. And, And so as a part of that, I worked a lot with designers, R and D people, product engineers and various marketing people, et cetera, and trying to figure out how to bring all the different things together so that. When you are going through your design options, when you're trying to choose them, when you're using stage gate processes and things like that, and you're bringing in the right set of testing and verifications and simulations through the process. So that's really where I spend a lot of my time.

Cory Connors: 3:10

It's impressive what you've built. And I've, had a, a lot of Experience listening to, speakers, talk about your system and your software and how it works and how it's implemented and how it, it's very effective, spec right summit and things like that talking about. I know they're 1 of your partners as well. your system ties in very nicely with theirs, but let's talk about triac. what is it? and, the basics of it there.

Prashant Jagtap: 3:39

yeah. And so really with this past experience that I spoke about, one of the things I realized was I was always passionate about, lean manufacturing, lean design, and that really is fundamentally what sustainability is, right? Because you want to use things efficiently and not only manufacture things efficiently, but, design things efficiently And so with that interest, I was thinking, why not do that sustainability design thinking up front, not like later on thinking about, oh, I don't have this material. I can't recycle this. I cannot, do all that thinking really up front. So that was the idea, the basic idea that I had. And, and because of that, I started looking around for saying, well, what are the tools for sustainability that I can maybe use or incorporate for our customers. And then I found the life cycle assessment, the LCA's were there, but there was a big challenge in using that in my experience, right? Extremely complex tool, really designed for experts. You needed like a PhD in environmental engineering to think about it or set

Cory Connors: 4:52

up

Prashant Jagtap: 4:53

the problem, right? to really do that. And I was like, if we want to bring this in early in the design, there is no way we can use it the way it is designed. And also the target audience, You need to make it simple enough for the designers and engineers. Who are worrying more about the products, not about the science of environmental engineering, right? So we used those principles and said, let's design a different tool. And incidentally, right around that time, and I'm talking about this is now almost 14, 15 years back, right around that time, I met the SPC folks at a conference. And as it so happened that. I told them about our passion about doing this for products and they said, Hey, we want to do the same thing for packaging. That's how we got together. And they said, Hey, would you develop the compass software for us? And so that's how we actually started designing the packaging part. For them, and we were developing the product side from tracks point of view. So that's the history. And that's where we started. And of course, since then, we merged both the packaging and product side and we have taken it completely over since then. And so now the solution is entirely part of the eco impact platform that track, sells.

Cory Connors: 6:14

It's an impressive system, and my, I think my favorite part about it is that, like you said, it's something that, that, Most professionals could use, fairly easily and understand, both the inputs and the outputs, you allow it to put it into something that people can relate to, like how many barrels of oil or how many miles driven, does this equal? And it just makes sense. The first time I saw that at a Speckwright summit, I thought, wow, I want this. I want to learn about this and I've been talking about it at, for years and years now. thanks to you and to your team. So well done.

Prashant Jagtap: 6:55

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Cory Connors: 6:57

So let's give an example to the audience, how Trayak can be used to make packaging more sustainable.

Prashant Jagtap: 7:04

yeah. a lot of times our customers, when they approach us, they really are, let's say, in the midst of designing something new or designing a new package, and then they're looking at it and say, I have these three options or four options, and I want to see, which one, someone came and told me we got to make this sustainable. This new design has to be with less environmental footprint. So how do I analyze it? How do I pick the right ones? So the most common thing is you, within 10 minutes, you can actually model that package inside Compass and you can actually choose just one component or you can design the entire primary package. Or you can design the entire palette in there, like the entire palletization can be put in there. And we make it simple because we provide a template and the template makes it easy to just add the information. And as you do that for the main, let's say the whole design and the other designs, you can then quickly compare them and we show you visually, which one's better. Now, there's one really fantastic thing we started doing right from the beginning is, when we talk to our customers, we realize that nobody's really designing and improving things in a vacuum, right? there's always functional requirements and there is always things that you, have to trade off or cannot trade off. And just showing that, Oh, I'm reducing my greenhouse gases, or I'm reducing my water footprint. That's not enough, right? So does the package still perform? Does it still have a shelf life? That's important. That's important for the product or is the damage rate still within, parameters that are important to you. So we then came up with this very visual way of doing the trade off. So we have this. spider chart, and you can choose the axes that you want to see on it. So clearly some of them will be the environmental footprints, but some of them could be this damage rate, cost, shelf life, et cetera. And then you can visually see if I made these design choices, what am I getting in terms of reduction? And what am I trading off? So that was, I think, one of the key things that we had to do.

Cory Connors: 9:28

That's so valuable for anyone going through this process. And I think that's why what you've created is so important to business in not just packaging, but everything it's absolutely necessary that we look at our packaging and say, will it perform? But is it okay to push those limits a little bit and have a little bit more damage if you can be a lot more sustainable? so I think what you've offered is an opportunity to say, well, we're going to risk that 3 percent damage rate. but we're going to, lower carbon footprint by 40%, it's significant enough to where people would say, that's worth the risk. And our customers will understand that. I think you're exactly right.

Prashant Jagtap: 10:12

And Corey, most designs are optimization problems, right? You have multiple criterias, multiple things you're trying to balance and you're trying to figure out the right mix of all these things that will work for your business. And having a tool that lets you play with these things and optimize these easily, that's really the ticket for a lot of these things, and that's, I believe we have tried to achieve that, and that's been our goal throughout this whole exercise of creating this tool. Like, let's make it easy to do that. Yeah,

Cory Connors: 10:43

well, I think you've done it and I want to commend you and your team because I've used your software and it works and we're, it's very successful and it's, and it makes it simple to understand for our customers and for our team. But it also can drill down into the real root of why. And, I think that's what a lot of people want to see as far as an LCA, tool that goes. But you mentioned the sustainable packaging coalition. You and I are both big fans of them and their events and what they do in the industry. you have a big presence there. And it sounds like you have a long history, meeting them 14 years ago. I didn't realize that. That's wonderful. I didn't even know that SPC was 14 years old, but, that the Paul Nowak and team over there are incredible. but let's talk about what you're going to offer at the next SPC event in Chicago.

Prashant Jagtap: 12:08

Yes. so like you said, we have always have a big presence there. We always try to, involve ourselves and give something back to the community there. So this year in Chicago at the SPC Advance, we are conducting a workshop and this time the workshop is on reusability and really thinking of reusable systems, right? reusable is a very commonly. thought of strategy, but it's not easy to get it right. there are so many places where people have said, okay, let me create this refill or reuse. And Then they realize that, okay, it's not that easy. And actually, if it doesn't work, I have just increased my environmental footprint instead of decreasing it. So it's very easy to go wrong about it. So we taught a workshop where, whoever can sign up for this can join us and actually Walk through some examples, get some hands on experience to really test their, reuse ideas, any, examples that they have and compare that to the single use options and then say, as an entire system, when I consider collection, when I consider washing cycles, when I consider transportations, All of that when I look at the whole system, and then when I consider losses in there, when I consider, I'm going to, some of those things may not come back, for various reasons. is it really going to work still?

Cory Connors: 13:36

Yeah.

Prashant Jagtap: 13:36

And, what surprised us when we were creating this model was that even small numbers of losses, like, even if it's like 2%, 5%, Eventually can make a big difference. And so you gotta be careful about what do you design. And, and so the, the system will really help you. So I really welcome all your listeners to come and join us for this workshop and get a hands on experience. In addition to this workshop, we also have, on the main stage, a quick, like small TED talk. And, there'll be another one. One of our customers actually will be, on the stage as well, along with us. And we'll talk about some practical aspects of implementing, these, systems as well, because there are many commercial aspects that you have to think about too. It's not just about designing a new. reusable package. It's also about, am I going to buy it? Am I going to lease it? Who's going to set up the collection? Who's going to set up the washing cycles? do I use a commercial one? Do I use a shared one? Lots of questions. So I welcome your listeners to come and, see us.

Cory Connors: 14:46

Yeah. Thank you. It's, I'm a very visual person and to be a part of an event like SPC is great, but I really enjoy the parts where we can have these workshops where I get to touch and feel the samples and raise my hand and ask a question and have it answered immediately during the discussion and, bounce ideas off the people at my table. And, I think that I'm very excited for all of the talks and the talks are put together very well. Very well and very insightful. but the workshops to me is my, one of my favorite parts for sure.

Prashant Jagtap: 15:21

Absolutely. And you know what track will be there. we are sending like six or seven people from our team there so that, the workshop, we are able to give like personal attention, and, one on one kind of consulting and things like that. So absolutely. we encourage people to come and join us.

Cory Connors: 15:38

That's great. Well, I'll put a link to the sign up for that workshop in the notes. If I can get that from Barbara from green blue. She's awesome. So I'm sure she'll supply us with that. I also wanted to talk about Amsterdam. You're going back to Europe for, the sustainable packaging summit and the S. P. C. Amsterdam event. Will that be a similar thing to what you'll do in Chicago?

Prashant Jagtap: 16:06

Yes. first of all, we are going to be there back to back for both those events, for the Packaging Europe event, and I think they're in the same venue, right? Same.

Cory Connors: 16:16

Same as last year, yeah.

Prashant Jagtap: 16:18

That's right. we are going to be there, and we are going to conduct a workshop there as well. But the topic there will be slightly different. in Europe. We are going to be talking more about analytics. one of the things we introduced, as a part of our platform is this notion of sustainability intelligence, which means, it's one thing to really, Start working directly on, like one package when you're designing, but when you baseline and look at your entire portfolio, you can actually come up with a lot of insights. And so we encourage people to say, do the baseline. Look at the insights that we can provide you. Slice and dice in different ways at your data. Look at from a material point of view. Look at it from a waste point of view. Look at it from a recycling point of view. Look at it from, just material utilization or one kind of structure or one kind of, you can look at it in so many different ways and then that will give you a better way to say, where should I focus on? Like my company, what are my company's low hanging fruit? So analytics, business intelligence or analytics, though, that's what we are showcasing there and saying, look at how we provide you with all the different dashboards and you can drill down and find the things for yourself that are important, in terms of where you should work on. And then, We do have other parts of our platform that help you then look at the portfolio and say, what if I did this? What if I, replaced, PET, added like 30 percent PCR to all my PET bottles of different sizes. How much am I going to, improve my environmental footprint? So instead of doing it one at a time, that's what traditionally everybody did. One package, couple of options, do it. Instead of doing that, look at like what if analysis across your entire portfolio. and that's what our customers are struggling with. And so we figured we'll create some tools for them for that. And that's what we're going to showcase in the workshop.

Cory Connors: 18:29

I can't wait for that too. I'm going to sign up for that one as well. That event that packaging Europe puts on and Tim Sykes and team is incredible worth the trip. Absolutely amazing. And SPC will have a co listed event the day before, which is so cool. Can't wait for that. First time ever there as well. I'll

Prashant Jagtap: 18:50

tell you, Corey, the only one thing I'm going to tell everybody, all your listeners who are going to come there, is make sure you watch your wallets. Last year, when I was

Cory Connors: 19:00

up there,

Prashant Jagtap: 19:01

I had my wallet taken away from me.

Cory Connors: 19:03

Oh no, I didn't know that. That's terrible. Yeah, keep your wallet in your front pocket. That's right. Lots of pickpockets around. But it's a beautiful city. Beautiful city. Yeah, we had a great time there. Brought my wife last year. It was really fun, but, learned a lot at the show and just, all the talks and it was, there's two stages there, which is really exciting to tracks. and actually I think three, with, there's another one on the other side of the building, which is, People pitching their new ideas, which is exciting. So Tim's got a whole gamut of, things to, to listen to.

Prashant Jagtap: 19:41

And I think one of those evenings is also a, award dinner, isn't it?

Cory Connors: 19:45

Yes. Yeah. That was very impressive last year. as I'm one of the judges, there's about 50 judges for the sustainable, building. Sustainable Packaging Summit, awards. And, it's an overwhelming experience because there's so many great, entries. So you almost find yourself like, well, this one's just slightly better than that one. And just how do you rate them? And you really have to take your time. It was very time consuming for me, because I really, I, I know how long it takes to develop something new. And, so I want to give, The respect to these inventors and these companies that are making these new packaging innovations. but I think what you'll see at this event and this dinner is some of the latest and greatest in the world.

Prashant Jagtap: 20:31

Yeah, that's true. Can't wait to see it.

Cory Connors: 20:34

Yeah. I wanted to mention real quickly. the, extended producer responsibility. Yeah. And I think your tool really, will help people with that. are you finding an increase in interest because of EPR laws that are coming out?

Prashant Jagtap: 20:51

Oh, absolutely. we just introduced our EPR solution as well last year, and we are seeing a lot of traction for it. And honestly, in the beginning, we were not sure about it, but we felt like with all the data that our customers are putting in our software and all the calculations that we're doing for all the analytics, et cetera, doing EPR calculation would just seem like a natural fit for what we were doing. And so we started doing that. And, and yeah, so our, we are seeing a lot of interest in it, as in the U S now, there are more and more states coming online and, Europe has already been interested in that for a few, for a decade or more. So definitely a lot of interest in it and the way we explain it is if you start managing your sustainability, with, with baselining, et cetera, EPR doesn't become an extra lift. The biggest thing with EPR, if you're just starting from scratch is all the lift you have to do to put things in place and do the calculations. And that's why many people really just hire consultants and do it more like a top down spend analysis based approach, which in many cases are just approximations, right? Whereas what we are doing is more what I call the bottoms up, bill of material, based, actual data specification, right? Real numbers, right? Accurate, real numbers, more accurate numbers. And, and hopefully you actually pay less, right?

Cory Connors: 22:24

Because

Prashant Jagtap: 22:25

otherwise you just. to be safe, people are just overestimating and paying higher fees, I think, and they also don't get credit where it is due, especially for, adding PCR or whatever the, credits are, they're not quite getting them. with our customers, it's becoming more like a complete solution where You can do goals management, you can do baselining, you can do your decisions, you can do your trade offs, you can do analytics, and now you can do EPR fees. So it just becomes an end to end kind of a solution.

Cory Connors: 22:57

It's fascinating how much this is going to affect. All businesses, I really feel like it's going to affect everyone in some way, especially packaging companies and people like us that are in this industry. We are, we need to be laser focused on this and find the tools like yours that are effective and will actually make an impact. Yeah, well done.

Prashant Jagtap: 23:21

Exactly. Yeah.

Cory Connors: 23:22

Well, thank you, sir. I can't wait to see you in Chicago. And then in Amsterdam, anything else you wanted to tell the audience before we finish this 1.

Prashant Jagtap: 23:30

Well, yeah, actually, one last thing I would like to add is, historically, what we did was really contributing to scope three emissions for what we did, but we tried to stay away from scope one and scope two. But, many of our customers started asking, Hey, I just want to use the same software for scope one, two and three. And so why don't you guys do something about it? And so guess what, in the next month or so, we'll have our software where we have a module now where you can do your scope one, your direct emissions, indirect emissions, everything. And then of course, do the scope three, which is what you make, right? All your bill of your supply chain and all the, products and packaging that you're making. So I think, our solutions are becoming more complete as we go along. And reach out to us when you have some, time.

Cory Connors: 24:20

It sounds like you started with the most difficult aspects and then you narrowed it down into the, more, easily attainable numbers so that people can, they can have them all in one spot, like you said, and you offer a free trial, if I'm. If I'm not mistaken.

Prashant Jagtap: 24:36

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. All our customers, they have access to a free trial, go to triac. com, T R A Y A K. com. And on that website, on the top, there's a login button or to go to our platform. You can also directly go to our platform website, which is ecoimpact. triac. com. And then there's a sign up there and, feel free to. give it a try.

Cory Connors: 25:02

Well, thank you, sir. I'm totally excited about what you and your company are doing. I think it's the missing element and a lot of people's, tools bag that they, they absolutely need to complete these, reportings that will be required coming up soon here in America and already in Europe. And, so well done. Thank you so much for your time.

Prashant Jagtap: 25:23

Thank you, Cody, for having me on. Thank you. Take care. Bye bye.