Jonathan Cage (US Plastics Pact Winner) Impact Plastics

Winners of the https://usplasticspact.org/ 2024 award (1 of 4) 

What is the US Plastics Pact and why is it so valuable to our circular economy? 
How can we make items more recyclable? 
How are they replacing polystyrene with a more recyclable material? 

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Transcript

Cory Connors: 0:31

Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guest is my friend Jonathan Cage from Impact Plastics. How are you, Jonathan?

Jonathan Cage: 0:39

Doing great, Cory. How are you? Super to see you.

Cory Connors: 0:41

Great to see you again a second time on this show. First time winner of the U. S. Plastics Pack though. I'm very excited for you and, and that award for your company and for yourself. But before we get to any of that, can you tell us a little bit about your background, how you got, ended up in packaging?

Jonathan Cage: 0:58

Sure. Yeah, actually, I started off in packaging straight out of college. I went for an interview with Bemis Corporation, in Indiana. And, I was fortunate enough at that time to be, given a plateau by the president of the division. And I just fell in love with plastics and blown film and the conversion process. And, to me, it was just an amazing, just all of the process and the, the blown film lines and the conversion lines. And so I started off in flexibles and I was there for about five years, moved into some kind of specialty plastic structures and things like that, in blown films for both medical and consumer products. And then I actually made a big shift into rigid. And so I moved into, rigid plastics. I was actually working for a company on the East coast. back then it was called ramp up packaging, which is now owned by a print pack and really terrific group. And, so that's where I started my career. in rigid plastics, doing everything from monolayer to multi layer high barrier co extrusions in both thermal forms and also in roll stock for form fill seal applications as well. And so that's really where my, my background came from in packaging. I'm very passionate about plastics. I'm very passionate about recycling. and, just love the industry, love what we're doing and feel like, especially with our most recent win, there's just so much more that we're able to do together moving forward. So that's a little bit of my background along the way, I was fortunate enough while we were working, for one company to get my master black belt, which to me was just, a wonderful opportunity, probably one of the most unique opportunities that I've had within my career. And so I feel very fortunate to do that. And so here we are today with Impact Plastics ICPG.

Cory Connors: 2:54

That's excellent. And the black belt is in regards to, systems or at least six sigma. Yeah, it's

Jonathan Cage: 3:02

basically, it's a process you follow this, it's called the domain process, where you actually go through a very regimented, protocol, with regards to problem solving. Some of the problems could take a year, when they were about black belt project. some of the other projects, you do like a Kaizen and things like that. an impressive program. It really is. Yeah, brother went through it. yeah.

Cory Connors: 3:27

Well, let's talk about impact group and impact plastics division. Can you tell us about that?

Jonathan Cage: 3:34

Yeah, sure can. the company started actually a superior, plastics extrusion company years ago, back in the late 60s and things like that. And then, our current, ownership, got involved and then actually then took over ownership of impact plastics. Today, we have 2 locations. 1 that's located up in Connecticut in Putnam, Connecticut, where our headquarters are. And then our 2nd facility, where we do a lot of our food products, food for a rigid food packaging, materials down in Hamlet, North Carolina, and that's where I'm located actually down in the Carolinas. Our primary focus is on extrusion. So we do rigid extrusion, with. The primary materials, polypropylene, polystyrene, PET, polyethylene, and then we do barrier materials as well, EVOH, etc. yeah, so we, we're a dedicated extrusion house, supplying structures, and materials to thermoformers and the formful seal industry.

Cory Connors: 4:35

Well, well done on all of that. And this is your first time winning the U. S. Plastics Pact Award. Congratulations to you. Thank you

Jonathan Cage: 4:44

very much. Yeah, we're super proud. we've put an awful lot of effort into this, in this development. and to actually be chosen was an honor and then to actually win it. was just it's a very exciting time for us. so we were very proud of and we're very appreciative of all the work the U. S. Plastics Pact and the Activators, just a terrific organization.

Cory Connors: 5:07

Before we get to the product that you entered in one with or the material or processor or whatever it was, can you talk about how easy it was to enter the awards and what the process was like and all that?

Jonathan Cage: 5:24

Yeah, sure. so we actually, we put in our application, which was fairly extensive actually. But if you're doing the work and you've got the invention, and you've, you're set on the protocol. It just falls in, in suit. So it was very, very logically laid out as far as the questions. Yeah. everything from, tell us about the, the innovation, how you process it, where's the opportunity, how did you get commercial, and where you are today. And so that, that's essentially what we did. We had some clarifications that came back from the U S plastics pack and, at the end of the day, we then turned over basically the whole information on the XPP material, which is what we ran one for recyclability, turned it over and then, through, and we had an interview process as well, which was quite, Quite unique. where we had a panel, a group discussion from the U. S. plastics back. and so we were able to interact and give them more information and answer any of their questions, et cetera. So it was really, it was, it was a great process.

Cory Connors: 6:32

I think a lot of people listening would be very interested to win an award from the U. S. Plastics Pact, which is why I asked you that. So thank you for providing that wisdom. So tell us about this XPP material.

Jonathan Cage: 6:44

Sure. if I can just roll the clock back a little bit. So this actual, this initiative actually started 15 years ago. a colleague of mine, Mike Morin, who's our commercial director, him and I had worked with a couple of, brand owners on actually moving out of polystyrene at the time, but it was more of an economic play at the time because styrene markets were high and prices were high, et cetera. So we had tried that initiative, and it was really difficult to come up for a material replacement for polystyrene that runs on horizontal form, full seal equipment. So if you think of. Everything from yogurt to pudding cups to their little creamers, for instance, that's all run on horizontal form fill, seal sheet. Fast forward about, five years ago, I was working with one of our industry partners. Who had a development in polypropylene and I've been passionate about polypropylene ever since the beginning of my career in rigid where I was actually representing applesauce cups and selling applesauce cups to the industry years ago. back then they were a tank and they were white and they had print on them and now they're beautiful, clear and they're light. So progress made, but I was also, I was always fascinated with polypropylene and, we actually It was like a 3M post it note story. So the material was designed for another application. We were trialing it. And finally we were getting to the end of all of the trials going, okay, well, we've got some material didn't really work out how we thought it was going to work out. And our senior engineer brought a sample of sheet in and said that, yeah, okay, well, this one's like super brittle. I'm not sure what's going to go on with it. And so we scored it right the way across the web. Yeah. And it's snapped cleanly right across the web and you just can't do that with polypropylene. And so basically, that was the turning point or the tipping point of our development. And that really set us on the path to innovation to the point today where we're now on generation 7. We've done a tremendous amount of of work. and the concept is that styrene has come under fire globally for a number of reasons, to replace styrene. You have very limited choices in this arena. If we go the P. E.T. route, and we're a huge P. E. T. exclusion house. If you go the P. T. route. Then there's a significant investment that you have to make to the formful seal lines, like the Haas seal lines, the arches, et cetera, that you to get the tonnage required to trim, out of the web. So you need to put a lot more tonnage there. and so replacing polystyrene is, has been a super challenge, given that it's an amazing material. It does amazing things. It's been great for many years. Right? But now it's under fire. What do we do? And you take some of the big brand owners that have maybe 50, 100 lines globally, and you look at the, investment required to convert those machines to run, say, like a polyester. you could be looking upwards of a million, million and a half euros, which is a significant capital investment when you look at that globally. So what we wanted to do was come up with a different solution. and we evaluated PT and we evaluated some other materials. And finally, we landed on polypropylene and this particular version of XPP or polypropylene, is brand new. There's nothing like it on the market. It's patented. and it functions like a styrene . So you get the same flex modulus. We get the same rheology. there's a few things that we need to change, but essentially, that's a more palatable investment, and development for a lot of the brand owners that are out there to try and replace styrene and horizontal form for sale. And the beauty about it with propylene is. It could be opaque, they could have a barrier in it up to 5%. and it's all fully recyclable, whereas other materials tend to contaminate other streams. if you laminate, then now you've got a potential.

Cory Connors: 10:58

Right

Jonathan Cage: 10:59

contaminant, if you're going to recycle the thermal forming versus this material, which completely gets recycled and ultimately our goal is to have a polypropylene. Cup with a polypropylene, leading film and then a polypropylene label. So to make the whole thing a hundred percent recyclable.

Cory Connors: 11:18

Now that's the dream, right? And to make it curbside recyclable, then it would even be even more incredible. Right. Yes. I think that's coming. I think, the onset of extended producer responsibility is going to, you Inject, millions of dollars into the system to, improve recycling systems and, robotics and AI and all of that for sorting. are you hearing the

Jonathan Cage: 11:42

same thing? Yeah, absolutely. And that's. we're actually gearing up to do that. We've got a co extrusion process where we can put PCR back in for us. It's getting the specific grades of polypropylene that we need back in that are going to be approved. But I'm hearing the same thing. Corey. it's coming. and we can look to some of the other countries that are doing it very effectively. You look at sort of Belgium, for instance, that I think has a 94 percent recycle rate. Well, okay, people, let's get there. Come on, let's stop making excuses. Let's get the materials, the right materials into the bins. let's fix this. We can figure it out.

Cory Connors: 12:17

That's exactly right. It's possible and these countries have proven it. And, we often look to Europe for wisdom and for, insights as to what's theoretically possible and what's actually possible in the world of sustainable packaging. So that's a great point. We need to stop making excuses and start planning ahead and making this circular economy work for all of us.

Jonathan Cage: 12:40

We do. we, we have limited resources in this world. We need to figure out how to take advantage of such, the systems, the basic systems are there. We just need to take it to the next level, get the commitments from everybody. I think that for the majority of people that I talk to, they actually, they love to recycle.

Cory Connors: 12:59

Right.

Jonathan Cage: 12:59

But it's trying to figure out, okay, does my county recycle, does my city recycle, am I recycling the right materials? And so I think, back to some of the comments we had on our first show, education, is so paramount simplification and education. I think you're going to continue to help us to drive towards some of these things. And, we were at circularity to receive the award. What a great. a great conference. That was really enjoyed that.

Cory Connors: 13:27

I agree. The, uh, Dr. John Smaya and his team at, green biz are put on an incredible event. one of my favorites of this year. And, yeah, I think. It's interesting to see not just packaging be discussed, all things circular, all things, clothing materials and, we need to use this concept in lots of different ways, to reduce overall waste. And, turn waste into a valuable commodity. so it is circular and so it will get reused or recycled or, whatever the case may be. Yeah. And

Jonathan Cage: 14:00

I think you hit on a real keynote value, the recycler has to be able to re extract value from it. Yeah. We, as converters and producers, we need to extract it, and So that's where you know, we start to build that circularity, which is so critical.

Cory Connors: 14:17

That's right Well, how can I how can companies make items that are more recyclable? what's the key there?

Jonathan Cage: 14:23

I think as I mentioned a lot of it is simplification you know I think that we went through phases where we were over packaging in many respects and we need to simplify that Get rid of the Some of the unnecessary components, think about the product itself. How can we effectively protect it? Do we need, to have some of the structures and the complexities that we have today, or are there ways to simplify? And I think that if we can get to that sort of starts to streamline. all of the different, material streams as well, as to keep them, them clean. I think that we're focusing today. I feel like, it's coming down, boiling down to maybe three, really, maybe four major materials and, PT, obviously polyester is huge, and especially in bottles and things like that. and then polyethylene and polypropylene, all very recyclable, very reusable, and sustainable materials. So I think Corey, a lot of, if we can simplify, if we can make it. like I was saying earlier with, polypropylene package, polypropylene labels, et cetera. can we make them so they're like polymorphs and we can simplify it again, and yeah, easy, gotta be easy,

Cory Connors: 15:34

that's it people, even when given the chance to recycle, Oftentimes, I'll watch people throw it in the bin next to it and just think, Did they not know? Did they not care? And I think, you're right. Education. We gotta show. Make it so simple. Put pictures on the bins. This is what goes in this bin. This is what goes in that bin. make it, So easy. Anybody can do it. And anybody who's barely paying attention, and I get it. We can't put it all on the consumer. this has to be a simple system for all of us.

Jonathan Cage: 16:10

It does. It really does. And I think convenience is, it's something that I'm seeing a lot in Europe. There's a lot of recycling stations, just, you go to Iceland, they're all over the place. You go to Copenhagen, all of these different countries. And they do it really well. It's not necessarily the blue bins. It's these very well designed, beautiful, nice, simple, like recycle, rubbish, and things like that. And so I think convenience is, as another factor that, that, ultimately, like you said, make it easy. Yeah. Yeah. It's the

Cory Connors: 16:41

key to success, and make, like you said, making it valuable.

Jonathan Cage: 16:46

Yeah,

Cory Connors: 16:47

if the recycled material is valuable, I think the recyclers are going to help the municipalities, funnel that material to them.

Jonathan Cage: 16:58

Yeah,

Cory Connors: 16:58

and I think that's where, maybe that's where it has to start is making that valuable. And I think with these new laws of recycled content percentages and all of that coming to fruition, people are going to say, oh, man, how do I get 30%? recycled material into this, when there's nothing, when it's not available yet or whatever the case may be.

Jonathan Cage: 17:19

Yeah, and it's interesting what I've, I always had a real, I don't know, beef or, you used to upset me, when I would look at, I would stay at hotels or I would, and then, you go to an event or you go on a cruise or what have you and I'm like, Joe, you've got a captive opportunity. Yes, it's work, right? It's work to sort it. It's got to be sorted somewhere. But I love the fact, it's, marriage these days, still stay a fair amount there. And they've got recycled bins in all of the rooms now, which they didn't, A couple of years ago, and so I'm seeing that level of activity and talk about volumes of materials that we could recycle, there's your opportunity.

Cory Connors: 18:05

That's it. Yep. Making it easy for every single person, wherever they are to choose the right bin. Yeah. Well said. Well, again, congratulations on your US Plastics Pact award. Anything else that you wanted to tell us before we, close the show?

Jonathan Cage: 18:21

No, hats off and, a great big thank you to, to the, US Plastics Pact and all of the members, just really love being a part of that group. Circularity was super. if I could encourage everybody out there just to, stick with it, keep doing what we're doing, keep the faith. Let's get to the LCAs, let's get to the simplification, let's make this happen. again, we're very proud and appreciative of the award itself. and appreciate you having us, having us on your podcast as well, Corey. it's just always a pleasure.

Cory Connors: 18:50

Oh, it's my honor. Thank you, Jonathan. Appreciate it.

Jonathan Cage: 18:53

Take care. Thank you.