How The Recycled Materials Assoc. is helping companies recycle more (Natalie Messer Betts)

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How can companies recycle more? 
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Transcript

Cory Connors: 0:31

Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guest is Natalie Messer Betz. She is the Assistant Vice President of Sustainability at the Recycled Materials Association. How are you, Natalie?

Natalie Messer Betts: 0:43

Thanks for having me.

Cory Connors: 0:44

I appreciate your time and I'm excited to talk to you about what you do, but can you tell us a little bit about your background first before we get into the Recycled Materials Association?

Natalie Messer Betts: 0:55

Yeah, sure. So, I actually got into recycling through economic development. So when I was starting out in my professional life. I had a background, I went to grad school in public policy and I ended up working in local government in economic development. And so we did things like supporting, small business development, trying to attract new businesses to locate in our city, supporting international trade and exchange, which was a fascinating, job and where I was working, where I started. so I'm going to talk a little bit about where I still live today is Austin, Texas, and they had a very unique role at the city where they had an economic development position specifically focused on recycling businesses and supporting recycling because the city had this goal to reach zero waste by 2040, and so we're trying to support all the businesses that make that possible, so I had a background and passion in sustainability, and so I So this was like an amazing opportunity for me. I started working there, and really got to know recycling through that. and worked for many years at the city of Austin and built that into a circular economy program where we supported the city and doing reuse and repair and, zero waste entrepreneurship, it was really fun. role. So that's my professional background. And then from there, worked at, Murph, the material recovery facility operator here in Austin, until about a year ago. And then I started, here at REMA or the Recycled Materials Association.

Cory Connors: 2:17

That's wonderful. That sounds like a perfect background for your job. And, I think. Austin, Texas is a really cool place, and I'm very impressed with what they do as far as sustainability goes and recycling and all of the things that you mentioned. I was very impressed there. I went to a sustainable packaging coalition event there. I've been to a spec right summit there. it's a neat place.

Natalie Messer Betts: 2:42

Yeah, I love it here in Austin. And the city has always been very innovative in the local government. And so getting to do something like as specific as working in economic development for recycling is not like a role I think many cities would have. So I'm very grateful for it. And, It's a great place to be and it's also great because lots of conferences come to visit me here in our backyard. So

Cory Connors: 3:03

It's nice to live in a city that can accommodate things like that. I live in portland, oregon, which Oftentimes they say austin is the portland oregon of texas

Natalie Messer Betts: 3:15

Oh, I hear that a lot. There's a lot of portland to austin. Migration in both directions. And

Speaker: 3:20

I mean that in the best way. I'm a big fan of the city and I've lived here my whole life. But, let's talk about, Rima. What is a recycled materials association? And what do you do there?

Natalie Messer Betts: 3:31

Yeah, so ReMA until very recently was known as Isri. So if people have been around the recycling space for a while, might know us as Isri. but our new name reflects what we do a lot better. So, The Recycled Materials Association is the trade or industry association that represents companies in the U. S. and around the globe that process and broker and consume recycled materials, and that's all types of recycled materials. Everything from metals to plastic, paper, glass, electronics, et cetera. our job is to promote recycling in all those different areas. and we do that through networking advocacy and education. and we're based in DC, but as I mentioned, we have a team all over and I'm here in Austin. and, what I do there is I'm a lead our sustainability department. And so we have a couple of different focus areas. Part of what we what I do is, supporting our own companies and our members in their sustainability journeys. So, as they develop sustainability reports, or work to give data that their customers are requesting, part of my job is to make sure that those member companies. have a good sense of what's happening in the ESG and sustainability landscape, because that's, of course, as all your podcast listeners, I'm sure know ever evolving, and then also trying to make sure that everyone else is aware of the sustainability benefits of recycling, and that we're doing things with other industries to help them, recycle more and meet their own sustainability goals through recycling.

Speaker: 4:57

That's amazing. So you would work with a recycling company? Generally, and then would you also go upstream to work with maybe a producer of packaging like Orora packaging?

Natalie Messer Betts: 5:11

Yeah, definitely. So our members like who we directly represent would be the recycler, but then, it's our certainly part of what we do as an association is to work across the whole ecosystem and to make sure that we're communicating about, how the recycling process works, what recyclability means to upstream producers, and to downstream consumers of recycled materials, the whole ecosystem. of course, it only works when Place. So,

Speaker: 5:39

yeah, well, I'd love to get some of your wisdom. how should companies like ours design for recyclability? what's a focus we should be looking at?

Natalie Messer Betts: 5:50

Yeah, well, I think it might help to talk about like what recyclability means because it, there's a lot of different factors to it. And so, I like to talk about it from the end of the process to the beginning because, we use the word recycling for to mean a lot of different things and a lot of different steps in the process. So if we're talking about, oh, I recycle at home, you're talking about putting something in the bin, which is a crucial step in the process, but something isn't actually recycled until it makes it all the way into a new product. So for something to be recyclable, there has to be first and foremost demand from an end market. That needs to use that recycled content in a new product. So that has to be in place. You also have to be able to sort that material out properly through the system. So when it goes to a recycling facility, the equipment or the process in place at that facility has to be able to identify it and sort it into the right commodity. So it makes it to the end that end market. And then it has to be accepted by a local recycling program and you as a person at home or in an office or a business has to put it into the recycling stream. So all those things have to be true for it to be recyclable. and what we focus on with a lot of packaging manufacturers is, of course, that design piece, that makes something, be able to be sorted properly and used in end markets. So some kind of general principles is. The simpler and the more mono material. I know I just use the word simple and model material in the same sentence, which is a contradictory, but, the fewer different components that a package has generally supports its recyclability. and when I say simplicity, Our recycling systems are designed to sort lots and lots of different packages. And, so the more similar that 1 package looks to another, the easier it is to sort. So those are some kind of high level principles that support. Things being recyclable is trying to limit the types of materials and trying to, be as similar to other packaging types or how it looks and shape and format as possible.

Speaker: 7:52

That's a really great point. I hadn't thought about that since the advent of AI being in material recycling facilities. They are the cameras

Speaker 3: 8:04

are

Speaker: 8:04

focusing on how the packaging looks. Where, and maybe the shape of it, right? And maybe the markings, whereas, a human might touch it and feel the difference of the material as they sort. Right? So that's a really interesting point that we need to, as packaging manufacturers look at for our customers.

Natalie Messer Betts: 8:28

Yeah, as a is entering more and more sorting facilities, that's definitely true. it's also true even for mechanical sortation, they use something called 2D 3D screens. And so it's or, things are falling through based on the size that they are to a certain kind of conveyor belt so that it can be further sorted. and so, yeah, it, the size, the shape and how consistent it is with other things is always going to make it easier. That's not always. It's possible, right? Because I know brands want to stand out with their packaging and then that can be a challenge. But, For recycling, the more consistent, the better

Speaker: 9:03

that's excellent. So paper is you generally need paper to be, or corrugated or chipboard or whatever, iteration of paper we're talking about needs to be flat in the system to get recycled. and that's a generality, but would that be true for. Some of these new, paper bottles, like, do they need to be flattened to get recycled?

Natalie Messer Betts: 9:28

That's a great question, and probably not one with a simple answer. one thing to think about is how something gets from you drinking out of it, let's say a paper bottle, what it's going to look like. When you are using it as consumer might be different than how it's going to look when it shows up the recycling facility, because it's going to be put into a cart and then it's going to most likely and then it's going to be put into a truck. And then mostly it's going to likely it's going to be compacted. So, if it might flatten in that process. And so the rigidity of the package is important to consider. and, All of this and this complexity is why Rima recently developed a recycling readiness tool. It's called the fiber recycling readiness tool. And we released it last fall. It's available on our site. It's free and available for anyone to use and any packaging designer can go and enter in the specifics of their paper or fiber based package. And this you can you'll answer a number of questions about, the. Composition of the package, the size, the shape, the regionality of its distribution. And then, you will get a score, or rather a reading after you submit, all that to the tool, of either green, yellow or red and green means it's likely to pass through the U. S. Recycling system as it is today. Yellow means, It's either may in some cases and may not in others because, different murphs and different regions are going to have slightly different technologies or like it would pass with just a few modifications, and then red means it probably isn't going to pass through the system. So, if it gets a yellow or red, it also gives you feedback to say, Hey, if you remove, say, this type of coding, or if you remove this plastic material, or if you make it a larger format, it's going to increase the recyclability of the package.

Speaker: 11:11

That's really cool, to have that offered. Is that a cost free situation or is it something we need to pay for?

Natalie Messer Betts: 11:19

It's free. It is totally free to use. and you can use it as many times as you like. We wanted to make it free and available because. as I said at the beginning, the system only works when, the whole system works together. And so to develop this tool, we did a survey, that Warren associates did of the MRF infrastructure and standing for material recovery facility. So, of the MRF infrastructure, as it relates to paper recycling, across the U. S. and then also, like. Talk to our members who have paper mills and who run recycling facilities about factors that contribute to recyclability. and put all that information together in this tool, because we want brands and packaging designers to have that knowledge and to be able to get direct feedback so that more things can flow through the recycling system. So, we would love for anyone to use it. It's free to do so.

Speaker: 12:09

That's really exciting. And I appreciate that. I'm often asked, what's available to help. What, how can we figure this out as a team here? I would like to know, your thoughts on the future of recycling. are you seeing recycling trending upwards and being more prolific? maybe this is a 2 part question. I'll ask the 2nd part after, after you answer this one.

Natalie Messer Betts: 12:33

Yeah, I think so. I, There's a, I think, real big increase in interest in recycling and interest in circularity, has changed dramatically, even in my, like, 1012 years in this industry. A lot more attention is being paid to recyclability and to recycling, both from a consumer and then, that flows into all areas of the industry. And so, I think that we. Will have a more recyclable future. There's more and more guidance like ours out there. There's other groups doing guidance. Like, we have to. Association of plastics recyclers has similar guidance out there on plastic recycling. So we're trying together, come together more and also to provide, More and more national guidance, because the challenge was recycling is that it does operate on a local and regional basis for good reason, because the distance to an end market makes a big difference in whether something is economically feasible to recycle, but that can cause, confusion, I think when consumers move around, and also brands put out packaging on a national market scale. So, having to Consolidate and harmonize across a national basis to provide as much consistency as we can from the recycling industry, I think is going to help with recycling. and I think we're in a moment where. Everyone is aligned in the goal. Like, everyone recyclability of packaging. And wants to raise our recycling rates. and so I'm very optimistic.

Speaker: 14:03

That's exciting. And I think you're right. I think people, consumers and brands and municipalities and governments all want to work together to make recycling more accessible. Are you under the impression that extended producer responsibility will help with this? Process. It's okay to say no. It's

Natalie Messer Betts: 14:25

just a very nuanced answer. I guess I would say I think there's definitely opportunity for more policy to support this and, a PR as a funding mechanism. Certainly there's more funding that's needed for the recycling system in certain areas. I think, the. The devil's in the details often with many of these policies, and I think from a recycler perspective, our concern is just that the parts of the system that are working are allowed to continue to work. Well, under an EPR system and that recyclers are really at the table in crafting and, the system under an EPR policy. So, Rema does have an EPR position on our website. That's rather nuanced because, there's a lot of opportunity in it, but there's also a lot of, challenge to implementing it correctly from our perspective.

Speaker: 15:15

I couldn't agree with you more. there's, major concerns in the industry that this won't, this will not roll out correctly. it could be damaging to the consumer, to the environment eventually, if it's not done, in the right sequence and it's not done in the right order and the right way. And, But I think what I'm encouraged by is the municipalities are reaching out to, packaging companies, they're reaching out to CPG brands, they're reaching out to people like you and saying, is this going to work if we do it like this is, are we in trouble here? Or,

Natalie Messer Betts: 15:51

yeah, and I also, I'm just super encouraged by, like I said, The attention that recycling is, is getting because it needs it. Right. And, even at the federal level, we saw decades where very little happened on recycling. and now suddenly we have Swiffer grant money. Right. And we have, circularity, programs being put out by and, new prize awards. Like, there's just. There's attention, there's activity, there's innovation happening, and of course we're, there's going to be some times where we go down the wrong road or we make a misstep as a kind of industry or as we work on this, but we're working on it, and I think that's a really positive sign.

Speaker: 16:33

It's very true. We, we need to look at what's positive. We need to look at what's working. We need to stop doing what's not working. there's a lot of progress being made though. I'm seeing it when I go to events and, what are your thoughts on compostable packaging? is that something that could possibly take off one of these days soon?

Natalie Messer Betts: 16:51

Yeah, I live in a community that has curbside compost, available. And so, in a situation like that, where there's composting infrastructure, there's collection infrastructure, this is my personal opinion. I don't know that an opinion on packaging, but in those. Those certain applications where, it's to you to carry your food, it's going to be contaminated with food. that could that's. I think can be a really great part of the solution for, reducing waste to landfills. I think 1 of the concerns we have around it is. Consumer confusion, and because I have seen many cases where, businesses are trying to do the right thing. Compostable sounds good. They have a compostable cup that they give their customers and there's no compost bin, right? There's only a recycling bin and then it ends up in the recycling system. Right? So I think. Making sure that it's in the right places and that, it's also right size to where the infrastructure is at is going to be really key in making compostable packaging part of the right part of the solution.

Speaker: 17:54

That's it. We have to educate the consumer. We have to make it really easy, for the consumer. I could not agree with you more. We have to, offer, the BIN to the person using the package in that area.

Speaker 3: 18:06

Yeah.

Speaker: 18:06

and I've been to a few airports that do that really well, where they use the BIN. All compostable packaging and the only bins they have are compost bins. Yeah, like you can't make this mistake here.

Natalie Messer Betts: 18:17

yeah, I just went to a, an ice cream place this week that was all compostable packaging, really well labeled, bins in their store of what specifically they offered from, the store and those that was labeled. Everything was labeled on the bin of what should go into compost and what was landfill. And so in situations like that's great. that makes it simple for the consumer to make the right choice and the infrastructure is there, right? To provide the collection on the back end. So, I think it's definitely part of the solution. I think, again, it's about understanding the whole system that you're working in, and, applying it in the right place.

Speaker: 18:57

Totally agree. What are, what are your methods for educating, your customers? do you have a blog? Do you, are you just on amazing podcasts like this? Or what's the plan for getting the word out there?

Natalie Messer Betts: 19:09

we work I would say B2B and at Rima, we are, Industry association, and, our role is really to, I think, collect knowledge from our members and to make sure that knowledge is available to brands designers. About the recycling system, because those brands, those designers, those municipalities, they're the ones that have the reach in the communities. And so we are kind of a communicator within the industry so that those who are speaking to the public have the right information to share that message.

Speaker: 19:43

That's great. Will you be at, any packaging shows coming up? Are you going to pack expo in November? What do you have? We

Natalie Messer Betts: 19:52

are planning. we are partnering with American, on a workshop at the packaging, recycling, packaging, recycling summit. In California in September, and then we're also going to go to pack expo this year. it'll be our 1st time there, but we want to make sure that everyone there knows about this tool. and so, that's also why we were at where you and I met, and, In that we also moderated a panel with, recyclers on recyclability. We're trying to, as I said, bring this, bring our knowledge, and bring our members knowledge of their process, to brands who are curious and wanting to know more. So, yes, we will be, at that show in September and then in a Peck Expo in November as well. So, yeah. Great.

Speaker: 20:33

Looking

Natalie Messer Betts: 20:33

forward to it.

Speaker: 20:34

Well, come see me at the, Orora booth in the Sustainability Central. we'll have a little kiosk there. I'm really excited about that one. So hope to see you there. And yeah. Anything else you want to tell the audience before we call this one?

Natalie Messer Betts: 20:48

Well, you can find our fiber recycling readiness tool at fiber R R T dot org. and we would love for people to use it to share it with their peers and to give us feedback on it. if we can make it more useful to us to you, let us know.

Speaker: 21:04

Great. I'll add that link in the show notes. And, how about other ways to get a hold of you? LinkedIn or email? Yeah,

Natalie Messer Betts: 21:11

LinkedIn's probably the best way otherwise. So you can follow me. I'm there on Natalie Betts. And, we're also Recycled Materials Association on LinkedIn. So find us there.

Speaker: 21:22

Thank you so much, Natalie. I appreciate your wisdom. And, look forward to seeing you in November.

Natalie Messer Betts: 21:27

Sounds good. Thank you, Cory.