How To Talk To Gen Z about Sustainability! Valerie Hawks (Interact Brands)

https://interactbrands.com/

So exciting to speak with Valerie Hawks about branding and how to speak about sustainable messaging with this next generation. 

Val@interactbrands.com 

How are you talking about your sustainable journey? 
Does your customer understand how you're working to improve? 
what does the future generation care about? 

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https://ororapackagingsolutions.com/

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https://www.linkedin.com/in/cory-connors/

I'm here to help you make your packaging more sustainable! Reach out today and I'll get back to you asap.

This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022.

Transcript

Cory Connors: 0:31

Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guest is my friend Valerie Hawks, the Director of Production and Sustainability at Interact Brands. How are you, Valerie?

Valerie Hawks: 0:41

I'm good. How are you?

Cory Connors: 0:43

Good. It's been great to see what you're doing in the world of sustainability and packaging, and great to meet you a few times here and there at different events. But I'd love to hear about your background first before we get too much into your day job.

Valerie Hawks: 0:57

Yeah, my background. I took an interesting path to get to where I am. I actually have a BFA in photography and from photography. I learned Photoshop and I started out as a Photoshop production specialist for a bag and shoe company and I color changed the bags and shoes to every color that they came in Photoshop. Because of that, I learned Photoshop really well, and I was recruited into an ad agency in Denver as a retoucher, and the retoucher in advertising generally lives in the production department. So before that time, I had no idea what print production was. Because I joined the production department, I had to learn how to do print production. And from there, that's the trajectory that my career took. I moved up through that to the point where I was running the print production department within advertising agencies. And then my role at interact and the last agency that I was at, I was brought on as they were growing agencies to create their production department and to create the processes for their teams and how production works within a larger agency. and in packaging, which is what I specialize on now, obviously no longer in a full service advertising agency, print production is crucial to ensuring the final deliverable and how something looks out in the real world.

Cory Connors: 2:18

Yeah, it really is. And a lot of people don't know this, but my background is also in advertising and marketing. I got a degree in advertising and marketing from Portland State University, and I wanted to make commercials. That was, I was going to do that. Nobody was going to stop me. But, then when I graduated, no one was hiring. So I went into packaging and I'm glad I did. It's been a great journey. but let's talk about what is Interact Brands and, what's your role there?

Valerie Hawks: 2:47

Interact Brands is a branding and packaging design agency, so we create brands from anything from venture capitalist startups, new to market startups, to Fortune 500 companies that we work with, the Nestle's of the world. we've redone Hot Pockets, but we've also done a lot of smaller brands that are new to market and trying to get on shelf for the first time. We do everything from the start. To the end of creating their brand, their name, their logo, their tone of voice, how they exist in the world, the design, obviously their packaging, the majority of what we do exists in the CPG industry. So consumer packaged goods, mostly food and beverage, and we create their packaging, create their brands. And then I also work in my role. So I work. With print production and making sure that what we design is realized to its fullest form in its final form in the world. I also am the director of sustainability. So I work with brands throughout this process in a variety of ways from recommending sustainable materials or more sustainable materials all the way through to, Looking at what they're doing as a brand more holistically and how can they talk about what they're doing? How can they talk about their sustainability initiatives or whether they don't have any, how can they be comfortable just talking about why they're using the packaging that they're using, especially in the realm of sustainability, both on their packaging itself and then on their website and in broader, more communications.

Cory Connors: 4:14

Well, it's a big job. It's a big task and, I really enjoyed your presentation at Sustpack this year, where you spoke about, how do we communicate with the next generation and how do we engage them with our products, to feel comfortable to buy them? Can you talk about why communications with the next generation is so critical?

Valerie Hawks: 4:38

I think it's critical because of everything that we're hearing about Gen Z. This is the target market. We're hearing about Gen Z everywhere. And one of the ways that they're referred to is as the activist generation. And this is because they don't hesitate to get behind a cause that they believe in. Absolutely believe in climate and sustainability around that. the numbers show us clearly that they care that they are rallied behind this, that they will choose brands that are doing more sustainable things that they will, quote, unquote, cancel brands that aren't and so targeting this demographic isn't sustainable. Is it so much just a marketing scheme as it is a requirement? Because this is the next generation coming up that they're coming into spending power. they're going to be a part of the market that we need to be interacting with. The interesting part about them is this is a generation of digital natives. So, unlike myself, and probably yourself, they've been raised in this world of social media and phones and computers. that is their life. So, so they're just used to that in a way that generations before them haven't been. But also there is an insurgence of them now wanting to exist in the real world or IRL, like they want to be physically involved with things. If you look at the crochet hashtag on Instagram, it has millions of posts and the majority of them are coming from this generation. the film revolution, film is being bought and shot and processed more than it ever has been. When I went to school, I shot only film. We didn't have digital cameras yet. And then everything went to digital and I didn't touch film until again this year. And it's because of this generation's desire. To do things physically again, and brands have a unique opportunity with this as their packaging is a physical touch point. It's a place that is being interacted with physically, and it's an opportunity to gain their attention. There's a lot around interacting with them, because while they're activists, and they're outspoken. You also have to earn their trust, the old ways we both come from advertising of just pitching to the consumer and telling them what you know is right. Isn't going to work. You have to dialogue with them and you need to get them interacting with your brand. You have to build your trust with them before they will trust you, but it's really important because once you do, they will rally behind you and they will support you. And when it comes to packaging, We're all still working in this space to figure out what is, what works, what messaging works on your packaging to bring in a consumer and especially around sustainability, where we're still in a bit of the Wild West of what certifications even exist and what consumers. Understand what certifications so what is worth showing to them and there's a lot of. research that we do around this and trying to figure out what will really resonate with them, but making sure that you're communicating what you're doing to them is the most important.

Cory Connors: 7:37

Yes. so important to realize that as somebody who sells packaging and sells materials and provides that to brands, not now that everybody has a cell phone and has instant access to All the information in the world, it feels like, through, through Google and other search engines, even younger people are using tick tock now to, to search for, what's real, what's accurate and what is really sustainable. And, like you said, you can't just say it is prove it. Show me. Tell me why it is. And, that's a dramatic change from, when I was growing up when nobody had a cell phone. We just, you hoped it was better for the environment. And you made the decision based on what you thought, but yeah, well said. Things are changing. And, most people would say for the better. So it's exciting to have that opportunity to have an educated audience and to get to interact with them.

Valerie Hawks: 8:39

Yeah, definitely. And it's also an opportunity because they're seeking out that information to tell more of a story. So it can feel intimidating to brands to try to reach this generation. But just like you said, they're seeking this information out through these very popular channels through Tik TOK, through Instagram, trying to find out what's real and the only way that they can find out about. A brand and what they're doing is if that brand is willing to talk about it, and we're still in this space where we only want to talk about our wins because we're afraid that if we talk about something else, we're not going to be even recognized as being belonging in this. Sustainability space, but if we're not talking about what we're doing, there's no way for this younger generation or any consumers outside of us that live in this world day to understand the nuances around what makes something sustainable that recyclability is not often the shining star of sustainability that the majority of consumers believe it is because of the worldwide lack of sustainability. Systems that we don't have in place to deal with our waste and to deal with recycling. And so what else goes into a sustainability story? Is it your carbon footprint? Is it water usage? Is it land usage? There's so many other things that we can talk about to help this generation and to help all of us. Know more about what is actually sustainable.

Cory Connors: 10:00

Yes. and it's fun to be able to share the, that news with people and say, look, we have made improvements or this brand is better now. Are you finding most, companies that are coming to you are missing the mark at first and you're having to pivot with them.

Valerie Hawks: 10:19

I don't think they're missing the mark. I think it's just like. Consumers we, in these conferences, we go to hear about the intention versus action gap. So we see all these stats, all these studies that say consumers have this and they want to spend more money on brands that are sustainable, but the action gap exists because the money is not actually going to those brands. So how do we get them to follow through on this? And it's not that brands are missing the mark here. It's that they often hold that same knowledge that the consumers have, and they lack in the bigger picture knowledge that exists. And so they also need to be educated on this topic. sometimes just relying on vendors isn't enough. A lot of vendors will just read off a spec sheet. Obviously, you know what you're doing. So if people come to you in your job, you're going to be able to actually talk about materials, but a lot of print vendors and suppliers out there are just reading off a spec sheet. And if it says recyclable, they're like, yeah, this is recyclable. You're good. And brands believe that, especially these smaller, new to market brands that don't have a sustainability person on their team. So it's not that they're missing the mark, but it's that they're coming in either with misinformation or a lack of information. And. And that's where we come in and help to actually level set about, well, this wrapper that your printer told you could be recycled, isn't actually ever going to be recycled. So let's not put, please recycle on it. Let's be honest about what's really going to happen to it. So it's a lot of just low level conversations like that. I consider them low level because we know we can go so far with sustainability right now, but that's really where we're at with a lot. Of this and a lot of packaging. It's as simple as telling a brand, like, please take up the space on the sleeve that's going on your can to say, please remove this before recycling. Something so simple can make a difference, but they don't, brands don't know that if no one tells them and consumers don't know that if the brands don't tell them.

Cory Connors: 12:20

absolutely true. I made a TikTok about that, about this bottle has to be naked for it to get recycled and people said, what are you talking about? I didn't know that we have to take the sleeve off. That's crazy. And, it was very, it was. Very heated in the comments, and some people are like, I'm not doing that. Forget it. And some people are saying, oh, that's so wonderful. I didn't know that I could do that. And so you get the dichotomy is so vast and it's just so people are so different with their mindset and their thoughts on sustainability. and how much effort they're willing to give, but you're right. We have to give them the opportunity to be sustainable.

Valerie Hawks: 12:58

right and the 1 thing around that, that I'll tell people to do and I'll tell brands to do. I just told a label printer to do this. go to a material recycling facility, recovery facility, a recycling center, whatever it is in your local area, go to it and see what happens because that's where you'll learn that sleeves kept on. Cans or in plastic during the process of recycling gum up the machines, they have to stop the whole process, get in there with an ice pack, like, them off of it. And it holds up this entire process. And you would have been better just throwing it out.

Cory Connors: 13:30

Or

Valerie Hawks: 13:31

remove the sleeve,

Cory Connors: 13:32

right? Or remove the sleeve, separate the items so it can be easily sorted. Yeah. Well said. It's, we have to think about the full scope of what we're doing. We have to think about the full lifecycle of the material when we put it out into the market, not only how do we purchase it, how do we make it, how will it be interacted with after it's used at the end of life, or could it be reused? And, that's an exciting thing to think about too.

Valerie Hawks: 14:01

Right.

Cory Connors: 14:02

So what's a, what's an example of something that you enjoy, speaking to your clients about doing, like you said, are you recommending monomaterials? Are you recommend? what's your focus when you're talking to these customers?

Valerie Hawks: 14:15

My number one focus is to find out what they are doing, find out how much they care about it, how much it has been embedded into their brand, how much is it a part of their brand, and then getting them comfortable talking about what they're doing. Because there is a fear about misstepping in this space and making claims that you're going to get called out on, or that may be true today, but may not be true in a few months or a year. So getting them comfortable with talking about what they're doing in a transparent and honest way, helping them to talk about it in their own brand's own unique tone of voice, is really exciting for me because it's what I want to see more brands be confident doing. Putting a please recycle or a how to recycle logo on something is great, but let's talk about what you're actually doing. I've worked with some brands that are doing some really amazing sustainable things and they don't want to talk about it. They're afraid to talk about it. Or in the case of a brand we worked on last year, they were considered luxury. And so they felt like sustainability might not be as luxury. so they're doing all these great things. It's a part of their brand. They really care about it, but they didn't want to talk about it. And I'm really passionate about encouraging brands to talk about these things, to continue this education that this space desperately needs.

Cory Connors: 15:34

Wow. that's fascinating. To think about these brands that are doing great things, but they're a little bit nervous to talk about it because they don't want the pushback or they don't want their current customer base to be upset. that's wow. I hadn't thought about that, from a high end brand to, to say, we're not going to use as much packaging or we're removing this layer. And yeah, that's what a, what an insightful thing to say.

Valerie Hawks: 15:58

Yeah, or it's these smaller brands that are owned by large corporations and the large corporations may have gotten, flack for unsustainable practices in the past. And because of that, the smaller brands don't feel they can talk about it. But when you work in the space, this can all work so differently in these smaller brands can almost be independent, even if they're owned by a Unilever or Kraft Heinz or whatever. and so it's. Important for all of them to be talking about it and even these big brands that have had these big missteps are also some of the ones that are doing and funding some of the most innovation in this space. And a lot of people don't want to hear that. They want to demonize. It's either all good or it's all bad, but it's these big brands that have the opportunity to innovate to help bring the smaller brands in to follow them.

Cory Connors: 16:49

right. and they're doing amazing things. It's incredible to watch I've have very good relationships with some of these people at the big brands and they are totally changing the industry for the better. but you're right. They oftentimes get a lot of flack because, well, they've 50 years or a hundred years. And, or they made a mistake once and people won't let them forget about that. but I think you need those, deep pockets sometimes to innovate and to test and to try new things and, really make a positive impact. I'd like to get some advice from you because I think you're one of the people that, in the industry that people respect. What would you recommend to people to, to be more sustainable with their packaging? What's something that they should do?

Valerie Hawks: 17:39

Brands or people?

Cory Connors: 17:41

Brands.

Valerie Hawks: 17:42

Brands really think about what they need as opposed to what is necessarily the cheapest right out of the gate. I get it. Money is at the core of all that we do. And if you can't afford it, a material can't even be considered in your decision making process. But going with stock stuff can often lead to more packaging than we need. a little bit goes a long way. So right sizing your packaging is a really great 1st step to making sure that you're really only using what you need, because the less packaging that you use to start with the lower carbon footprint, because less was used to create it the less packaging that you have to go to waste be recycled or whatever. It's end of life is there's just less. There's less all around. so ensuring that the packaging is exactly what we need. also you can look into lightweighting. A lot of times we sacrifice, the strength of the packaging and lightweighting. We also sacrifice recyclability. A lot of times when it comes to like plastic and we're using multi, multi type materials within it. so weight in that area isn't always the best thing. I do think right sizing. And then if you wanted a window in something, could you kill that? Could we not put the plastic on the paper carton? Could we do a photo shoot of your product and make it look really good? and that's what we do. We'll do, we'll design it, make it look great on pack. Get rid of that window. Get rid of the plastic. Don't make it complicated to recycle. and then I, Hammer this point home all the time is tell people to remove a sleeve on account if you have to use a sleeve and a lot of times they do newer brands and smaller brands cannot afford the large print runs or the quantity that's required to print with a ball or a crown. So they have to use a sleeve, but let's. Be honest about what we're doing with that and use the space on there to tell consumers to remove it to recycle. Let's make it obvious that we're don't put it in tiny 4. 5 at the bottom. Like, make it clear that we're asking them to do something and then even go a step further and ask your producer to put a perf in that sleeve. Make it easier to tear it off. I work with a great brand, Calafia, who does have a perf in their sleeves for the, Their almond and oat milk that makes it a lot easier to just pull it off. the other place that I think is something that needs to be considered more is when we're doing a lot of plastic tubs. We have to a lot of times in supplements and in protein powders and that sort of thing. So we're going to put a label on it. Are we making sure that label is complimentary to the material of the tub to help it to be recycled? Or are we making it take up it? 50 percent or less space, so it will be accurately recycled looking at the association of plastic recyclers to make sure that the materials that we're using are complimentary to help ensure that's recycled because just having it be recyclable doesn't get it there. A lot of don't make it there in the end. So I think there's some little things that can happen that aren't huge investments. We're not going to get into a lot of alternative materials in the CPG space because of scalability and durability and cost. It's, if we head into a sustainability conversation with a brand about materials, it's a conversation stopper, but there are things that we can do to the existing packaging that is easy to work with that can make it better.

Cory Connors: 21:08

Well, I totally agree a hundred percent and, very well said we need to work together to solve these problems and think about the full scale of this job. Think about all the way to the end. What's the consumer do when they're done? Yeah, really well said Valerie. What's the best way for people to get in touch with you and your team there?

Valerie Hawks: 21:28

You can reach out to me at Val at interactbrands. com or sustainability at interactbrands. com. You can also find me on LinkedIn Val Hawks. That's the way most people reach out. I love to connect even if it's just to talk shop, even if it's just to set up a zoom call to talk about sustainability. Or the latest innovations. I have a few ongoing monthly connects with people in other parts of the space in the carbon industry and in the plastic credit industry, because I think, like you said, we all need to work together on this and learning what other people are doing can help me be better informed with clients, but help them be better informed in their area as well. So

Cory Connors: 22:07

please

Valerie Hawks: 22:07

reach out if you want to talk

Cory Connors: 22:10

Thank you so much. Valerie really appreciate your wisdom.

Valerie Hawks: 22:12

Thank you.