PKG Europe and SPC unite! Tim Sykes and Olga Kachook

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How can we all get together and learn from each other about the future of sustainable packaging? 
Did you know Packaging Europe and the SPC will co-locate for the first time in Amsterdam? 
November 11 for the SPC and November 12 and 13 for the Sustainable Packaging Summit , both in the same location! 

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Transcript

Cory Connors: 0:31

Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guests are two of my very favorite people in the industry, Mr. Tim Sykes from Packaging Europe and Olga Kachook from Green Blue. Good morning. Good afternoon to you both. I'm so excited to have you both on. I, I want to start with Olga and talk about, some podcast, but first let's talk a little bit about. Your organization and your role in the organization. So Olga, if you don't mind.

Olga Kachook: 1:02

Sure. And Corey, thanks so much for having me. I'm, this is my first time on the podcast, so really excited to be here. So green blue for those folks who aren't familiar is a nonprofit. We run a variety of. Programs related to, sustainability and sustainable materials. One of those programs is the sustainable packaging coalition and I am SPCs director. So the SPC is, a membership based collaborative, that works across the packaging value chain to help companies make their packaging more sustainable. And that definition, of course continues to evolve, but we've been around for, many years. And, are known for a couple of things, mostly, I think for bringing the entire value chain together. So the packaging manufacturers, converters all the way through to the brands and retailers, and, not leaving behind the haulers, the government agencies, municipalities, consultants, and we do that through events. So we have three events, one in the spring, one in the fall and another event that we will spend quite a bit of time today talking about. So we'll get into that in a bit. But in addition to the events, we bring together our members through working groups and really focus on helping them answer questions related to sustainable packaging with. For particular sort of focus areas, innovation, packaging, design, recovery and policy. And so those are some of the key topics that we focus in on with both our event programming as well as, in between the events and the things that we work on. So, really, covering a range of topics that, I think our members Need help with and that they've done a lot of work in, but could use some collaboration.

Cory Connors: 2:49

Yeah, very well said I've been to your events for several years now. I don't think I've missed 1 and the last 1 in New Orleans. Was that two weeks ago was, without a doubt, the best one I've ever attended. And, kudos to you and Barbara and your team over there for putting together, the finest selection of speakers. I was Absolutely. Just, frustrated because there were so many great speakers at the same time. So it was just like, okay, this one or this one. how do I do both? So I, thankfully Orora had three of us there or four of us there, so we could divide and conquer, but yeah, great show. And looking forward to this one that we're going to announce today. but Mr. Tim Sykes. Oh, go ahead, Oh, sorry.

Olga Kachook: 3:31

Oh, I was just going to say, we hear that a lot that folks want to attend different, different sessions. So we're working on a cloning booth, but haven't developed it yet.

Cory Connors: 3:40

That would be very sustainable. I like it. Okay, Tim, your turn, sir. Tell us about Packaging Europe and the Sustainable Packaging Summit.

Tim Sykes: 3:48

Thank you. And I'll try to be brief because I'm lucky to be here for the third time on your podcast. I don't want to become over familiar with your audience. some may have heard me saying these things before. so first of all, Packaging Europe, comes from a different background. We're not a nonprofit like Green Blue. We're a media company. but as we've. Matured as a company and kind of come to understand ourselves and the role that we can play. I would say that our mission has, evolved into something that sounds quite similar to what Olga was saying, and I really related to, to the things that she was saying about, bringing the value chain together, to help progress things around sustainability and indeed our, Tagline that you'll see if you go on our website is a sustainable future for packaging and when we see ourselves as having a role in helping industry, ensure that it remains fit for purpose in this. Rapidly changing, ever more complex world, where, there's so much technologically, politically, socially, changing, all of it, bringing new challenges for packaging and requiring adaptations, in the way that we do business, the way we, We provide goods to people the way people are consuming them. and yeah, all of them having implications for how packaging needs to adapt and, remain relevant and continue to bring value and avoid. doing bad things for the world and for the environment. so yeah, we, we exist to try to help educate, the whole of the value chain around these big strategic, challenges, and to help them to identify the opportunities in innovation, as they emerge. and then from that, the sustainable packaging summit has, Has emerged over the last, few years. very similarly, we're trying to bring together. leading figures and early adopters around the value chain to try to unite them around common pathways towards, environmentally sustainable packaging future. and we've tried to make that an event where. Perhaps unlike some of the conferences, and I don't want to, as a journalist, I've attended lots of great conferences, but occasionally I feel a bit frustrated by the number of people who are talking about what they've done, and then the element of. Self promotion or self congratulation that, that comes across, at some events, our ambition has always been to try to make the summit something that's really focused on next steps, and confronting where the disconnects and the barriers are, and, trying not to repeat points of consensus, but really focusing on impact and, how we can, Understand each other and the common problems that we face better in order to accelerate that, transformation to a more sustainable packaging ecosystem.

Cory Connors: 6:46

well done and I agree 100 percent your event, the same, it was so insightful, so many great speakers, so many great connections and, I cannot wait for November this year. It's going to be even better. And I think this is the time to, to announce this, joining of two great forces for the good in the sustainable packaging world, Olga, would you like the honors to tell us what we're doing this year in November in Amsterdam together?

Olga Kachook: 7:16

Sure. So, the exciting announcement is that our event, and, packaging Europe's event will be co located in, Amsterdam in November. So our SBC engaged 2024 event, which is typically our European event and the sustainable packaging summit will be co located and essentially it's. now, emerging of two kindred spirit events happening conveniently in one place at one time. So hopefully, there's now, even greater incentive to go to both events and, makes it easy on people's travel budgets and travel time. And of course, carbon budgets, I think it just makes so much sense. And we're really excited. I think both sides. Tim, I'll let you speak for yourself, but we are so excited to be, coming to Amsterdam and, being part of the sustainable packaging summit with our own events the day before

Cory Connors: 8:10

so exciting. I can't wait. This is, this is such an impact on the, world of sustainable packaging. I think these two events coming together makes perfect sense. when Tim told me about it a while ago, I said, well, that makes perfect sense. Good job. Nice work. Tim. Let's talk about this, this space that you're in, because it's absolutely the most beautiful building I've ever attended an event in. and I'd like to get a little bit into what can people expect at this event. So Tim.

Tim Sykes: 8:39

First of all, I'd just like to echo, Olga's excitement about the, partnership that we have. for quite a while, we've been thinking that Particularly since COVID came along, people want to travel less. they've understood that they can get a lot done without traveling. There's all sorts of other ways of networking. apparently there are things like zoom, that people use these days. and I think therefore we're much more selective about which trips we make. and we want to get more from the trips that we do decide to invest in. So it seems. Very sensible, from our self interest, but also to, to deliver more value to, delegates who. trust us to do that to bundle useful and complimentary events and meetings together. So that's the model that we wanted to develop around the sustainable packaging summit and last year we, for example, we had the holy grail 2. 0 platform using the same venue for their member meeting. and so, yeah, this year I think we will have, Some other parallel events taking place, some meetings and masterclasses and workshops, etc. Alongside the sustainability awards, dinner where we announced the winners of, that global sustainable packaging innovation competition. Yeah, absolutely. The SBC engages is the, the really important partner that we, we have, in realizing that, that vision that we had. and. We've just been so impressed by green blues work, over the last few years, since we started to collaborate on a smaller level and then more and more closely, I talked about why we had, why I think we have quite similar missions in terms of what we want to achieve, but we've also got complimentary strengths. we're necessarily Eurocentric, because of where we are and, SPC obviously has its epicenter in North America, but at the same time, we, I think we have a shared understanding that ultimately we're talking about global problems, which require international solutions and dialogue. And also that the kind of transformative. Ideas and technologies that we're going to need have no borders. And, we should help those to, to, circumnavigate the world as quickly as possible. So I think it's very exciting that we can bring together, Our two lenses, which, have different areas of specialist experience, and hopefully that we can, educate each other as well as our, delegates in, in, in a really useful ways.

Cory Connors: 11:16

Oh, I like that so much, Tim, and well said, as always. This, this city makes sense for this event. Amsterdam is a beautiful place, and, I was totally impressed with it. This building used to be the, stock exchange for the area, if I recall. And it is a, stunning architecture, and, and it just has this feel of Intimacy, and, I was able to communicate with so many great people from this industry at last year's event. That I'm still, catching up with those people, today and can't wait for November. so we've got November 11th will be the SPC event and November 12th and 13th will be the Sustainable Packaging Summit by Packaging Europe. Is that correct? That's correct. Yes. Yeah.

Olga Kachook: 12:07

Same venue.

Cory Connors: 12:09

Same doors. Three days in a row. So exciting. will there be a, a special sign up deal where you can do both or do you need to go to, both websites to sign up?

Tim Sykes: 12:21

We are handling registration separately. We for. Privacy reasons, it's a bit complicated for us to handle, SPC data and vice versa, but we are, yeah, certainly co promoting each other's events and both parties are offering a discount for, for people who have, signed up for, the other event. So, yeah, we, I think. And also we're working closely together to ensure that the programs that we put together are complimentary. So, you're not going to be learning everything you need about sustainability. It's quite a big subject as it happens in one event and therefore you don't need to go to the other. So I think it would be rewarding for everyone to try to make the three days.

Cory Connors: 13:09

I agree a hundred percent. And, thank you again, Tim, for inviting me to judge the, contest again this year for design and it's such an awesome, ceremony, it feels like the Oscars almost, it's just, people that win these awards are, absolutely the finest in the industry and, I think there's over 52 judges now, from all over the world. it's an exciting thing. Is that anything you'd like to talk about?

Tim Sykes: 13:36

We talked about that at length in our last interview, didn't we? So I don't want to repeat myself too much, but yeah, we've closed. submissions now and judging is underway. Corey's got his, homework, along with over 50 judges. In fact, I've neglect to say that, Olga is also a judge. So, both of you, have that. My homework is waiting for me too. Yeah. but one of the reasons we have so many judges is so that we don't put Entire, 200 or 300 entries on the desk of, each judge. So, yeah, it's always really exciting to, to see what emerges from that. And, it gives us a kind of annual snapshot To take a look at what's happening in the international innovation, landscape and, that informs how we, reports on the innovation trends that we see. And to some extent, what we decide to, put on the agenda and, what things that we want to highlight there.

Cory Connors: 15:03

Very true. Olga, what are you excited about for this event? Can you give us any sneak peeks about what's going to happen? I think the audience is interested in, learning a little bit more about what you plan to do at this event. Sure.

Olga Kachook: 15:17

Yeah. So our theme, we, all of our events have themes, Cory, as you mentioned, the New Orleans event was around, less carbon with better packaging. So this concept of. Reducing carbon emissions and thinking about the role of, climate change really, as it relates to packaging is something that we've started to do with all of our events. And I think, as Tim pointed out earlier, packaging is a global sustainable packaging getting To a better place with sustainable packaging is a global challenge. And we very much see that as well. So, this theme of carbon and tackling global challenges and interrelated challenges is going to carry us through, really all of our events this year, including SBC engage. And we've decided to focus for SBC engage on harmonization, which I think will really Appeal to and hopefully make both of our attendees quite happy, because what we want to do is make sure that increasingly the solutions that we're deploying in North America and elsewhere are the same, right? We don't want to have this is a huge struggle for companies is to be doing 1 thing in North America and another thing in Europe and another in Latin America and another in Asia. And, of course, there are regional. Contexts that are super important regional policies, but there also is an opportunity for harmonization. It's not a, well, we'll just do something different in every country and every city. And, and that's, I think every company's nightmare is to be told that they're going to have to do something different in every country. So, increasingly, there's a desire to, understand how we can collaborate and find common ground. In a number of different areas, can we move in the same direction? Can we roll in the same direction so that we're not deploying different strategies and having different approaches and reinventing the wheel? And for, I think, the North American contingent that's going to be going to the event that will be. Really exciting. North Americans want to learn from Europe, but I think there's an opportunity for European attendees to also learn from some of what's working well in the North American context. So, we had our event in London last year, SVC Engage in December in 2023 in London, and attendees. To learn from the European context, but I think we were a little bit surprised by how often we heard, from the Londoners and from, folks in the UK and, other areas of Europe that came, who are saying you guys are doing actually really well. And, these areas. And I think, Americans tend to put the Europeans on a pedestal when it comes to sustainability. We assume they have everything figured out. we assume that we're, light years behind and that, we're failing in all areas. And so it's nice to get a little bit of praise too, sometimes of, hey, you're, for example, you're, Your unpack labeling system is really great, and it's working. It seems to be working really well. We'd love the different types of labeling, but the fact that it's also increasingly the 1 program that everybody is using. And so, as we think about the program for, for November, we're thinking about what are those topics where we can learn from each other? Come to some sort of agreement, or, really a shared understanding and row in the same direction. So I mentioned unpack labeling. I think there's also opportunities around sustainable targets in general. Like, what is our definition of sustainable packaging? What kinds of goals do we think we, the industry should be setting? I think there's a huge opportunity to learn from each other when it comes to reusable packaging. this is definitely 1 area where, I fully admit Europe is light years ahead of the U. S. there is an opportunity for some shared learning and harmonization around reusable packaging guidance. and then another 1 that we hear a lot, a desire, a huge desire for is a shared understanding around testing for recyclability, particularly when it comes to paper recyclability. So, dream question that we'll be exploring with the event and beyond because we won't solve it in 3 days. But this question of we get to a single global standard for paper recyclability testing and some of the other testing methods that companies have to use in different regions to understand if their packaging qualifies as recyclable. So those are just a couple of examples of the specific topics, but the bigger theme there is harmonizing an approach so that we're, going in the same direction. Unlocking those common pathways and really, instead of spinning our wheels going faster, further together, and learning from each other in, both the North American audience and the European audience.

Cory Connors: 20:12

It's such an awesome opportunity and very well said. I remember hearing Marku from Danone on your stage with you, speaking about pre competition collaboration and, at the SPC event. And I thought, I said, that's it. That's the answer. We need to get together before and, work things out and in harmony. I think that's The perfect word harmonization for what, what needs to happen in packaging to be more sustainable, Tim, any other insights before we, we let the audience go here?

Tim Sykes: 20:44

Yeah, absolutely. And I can confirm, Olga's insight that in Europe, we don't have everything figured out. It brought a smile to my face, hearing that, that people might look at, Europe, in that way. there's all sorts of disconnects and challenges and, but. yeah, well, our program, will be on two stages. so we have, a strategy stage, which, is really focusing on the big picture, high level, challenges, and then an innovation stage, which is, you can already guess what the focus is, more. Highlighting the opportunities for R and D to, accelerate, sustainable transformation. And that's more focusing on kind of granular, challenges around materials and technologies. the strategy stage. I would say that we're, this is pivotal year for packaging from a Eurocentric perspective. We've got, the PPWR packaging and packaging waste regulation, coming towards being passed by the European Union, looking wider. You've got all sorts of, regions of the world evolving their own regulation. then on the even bigger level, you've got the United Nations plastic waste treaty happening. so. Everything is in the process of changing. and. the stakes are very high and, there's a lot of, questions about what the outcomes of these are going to be, and as always, the devil is in the detail, and we want to push an idea that there's an opportunity amid all of this chaos and flux to collaboratively embrace very ambitious goals and bold strategies right now that will hopefully keep us in compliance Not yet crystallized policy requirements, but also. Genuinely addressing the environmental needs that are our moral obligations, beyond the, the policy, obligations, and. policies are usually. Imperfect as well, and, we looking at PPWR are, we can see that there are certain environmental requirements that may not be fully addressed. or. certain, stipulations, which have unintended consequences, which always happens. So we're urging our audience to, to really think about. The requirements and where we need to be over the next decade or so, in a more holistic way. so, yeah, future proofing, I would say, would be a 1 of the big topics that we want to. To focus on or messages, thinking about, regulation, the issues around the disconnects within regulation, the needs to maintain, Business viability and regional competitiveness, while meeting these requirements on, packaging materials and recyclability and everything else. Then another area, which I guess is, Going to be a sort of dialogue between the two events when Olga talked about harmonization is how do we come together to, to drive the kinds of changes that we need at scale, reuse being a really good example of that. But I think it can be applied to all sorts of other areas where we need to make changes as an industry. And how do we create the conditions that enable us to, to build consortiums. And pre competitive platforms that do that. So thinking, not just about, how do, corporations needs to, behave and open themselves up to this, but, what are the, the regulatory backdrops that we need, the, extended producer responsibility, landscape that can make it. Easier for this to happen. How can, standards and, organizations like GS1 play a role in creating the conditions that help these kinds of consortiums arise. then another topic that I think is very important at the moment is continuing to build momentum around sustainability in the backdrop of. Economic headwinds. So, a question that's coming to me much more frequently over the last few months than it used to is, whether, Sustainability is still such a priority when there's such a kind of, press on costs. are people willing to invest in sustainability? What does, the relatively high interest rates do? how does the squeeze on the cost of living in among consumers in the UK Europe and North America, how does that impact, brands willingness to, to put a bit of investment on, more sustainable packaging, et cetera. So we want to look about, look at that and maybe talk to the financial leadership of, business, and the procurement side as well to understand how we can continue to make that kind of momentum. And on the innovation stage, as I said, there'll be a lot of focus on the opportunities as well as the, the challenges that we're talking about. So, we'll be inviting startups to pitch. We'll be focusing on some of the more interesting multi stakeholder research platforms, looking at some case studies of areas where. Innovation has been successful. in particular, we're interested in looking at pharmaceutical packaging where there's, some, for good reason, very strong requirements on safety, which make it more difficult to, meet obligations around recyclability. looking at, artificial intelligence and, where are the opportunities to, to drive progress there. So, yeah, it's going to be a lot going on. we also had the same issue that, that Olga and you talked about of, making it hard to choose which stage you're going to listen to. and what we're planning to do this year is live stream, both so that, everyone who's attending has the ability to rewatch, anything that they've missed, so hopefully that's great news, people more, more value for their time.

Cory Connors: 26:47

Thank you for that because yes, it can be very difficult at these events to choose which room to be in because they're both exciting topics or people that you want to hear from or learn from. I'm so excited and honored to be a part of this announcement with you all and can't wait for November in Amsterdam. So I'll put all the links in the show notes so that people can sign up and I hope to see you all there. Thank you Olga. Thank you

Tim Sykes: 27:14

Thanks for having us.