CEO Willemijn Peeters / Searious Business

https://www.seariousbusiness.com/
Mind Shifting Solutions for a circular plastic use 

Interviewing Willemijn was amazing.  She will be speaking at the Sustainable Packaging Summit in Amsterdam this November. 
Get Tickets Here: https://www.packagingsummit.earth/2024

https://www.linkedin.com/in/willemijnpeeters/

Check out our sponsor Orora Packaging Solutions 
https://ororapackagingsolutions.com/

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https://www.linkedin.com/in/cory-connors/

I'm here to help you make your packaging more sustainable! Reach out today and I'll get back to you asap.

This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022.

Transcript

Cory Connors: 0:31

Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guest is Willemijn Peters, the CEO and founder of Sirius Business. How are you today?

Willemijn Peeters: 0:41

I'm doing great, thank you.

Cory Connors: 0:42

Good, thanks for making some time. I'm very excited to tell the audience about what your organization does, but before we get there, can you tell us a little bit about what got you here to this point in your career?

Willemijn Peeters: 0:54

I think it's been an accumulation of different talents and different desires. So first of all, I think I have a talent for, being creative and good with numbers. So I used to be a business controller. I know pretty well how to make a business case and, what companies make their, base their decisions on. And at the same time, I'm good at convincing companies to take into account the environment. So really think beyond and change their behaviors accordingly, which is actually, yeah, it comes from my passion. eventually what drives me is to leave the world a better place than I found it in. And that's what something, a driver for myself. That I want to incorporate in my work and I've managed to find, yeah, the sweet spot in searious business, helping companies to make their plastic use more sustainable and then making a profit out of it. So I think that's where the both worlds come together.

Cory Connors: 1:46

That's awesome to hear. It's so common that people think sustainability is going to cost us all money, and it's going to be the end of our business, and that's so not the case when we deal with smart people like you. So, well done. Thank you. And you're live from the Netherlands today, which is one of my favorite places. What a beautiful country that you live in.

Willemijn Peeters: 2:07

thanks a lot. I think it's a great combination. In some countries, you have that perfect fit where there's a knowledge and expertise and there's people actually want to do the work because if you don't have the bright minds together with the people actually do the work, then nothing gets done. So, that's what I like. if you work together in a team, in a place where you can bring those worlds together.

Cory Connors: 2:27

Yeah, well said. Well, tell us about Sea Rious business. And I'm saying that odd because that's how it's, that's how it's spelled. Sea Rious . Tell us about that.

Willemijn Peeters: 2:37

Yeah, it has a wink to the sea. And that's because, yeah, it's because actually the mission of the company is zero plastics into our ocean. so that's the big hairy goal to prevent plastics from entering our environment. And keeping it in our economy. So, not losing it. So keeping the value high, at the same time, you need to prevent new plastics from coming in. So we're trying to with serious business, we're helping major brands to make their plastic use more sustainable by moving away from single use virgin plastic. That could be, moving away from virgin plastics in terms of finding another material or a recycled material. It could be switching to reuse or 30, it could be enable effective recycling. And that's what we try to do.

Cory Connors: 3:19

Excellent. all of the things that we're promoting on this show, it sounds like you're working on to promote as well, so I knew I liked you already. This is great. Willemijn Peeters: I think So when you are. When you're out there scouting for, recycled materials or reusable materials, are you working with, packaging companies like Orora and, companies like, like that? Or what is your focus there?

Willemijn Peeters: 3:45

what we see, at least in a packaging market, if you're looking at plastic use, is that the biggest change usually comes from, Brands and retailers who are at the end of the pipe, we have the closest connection to consumers change typically starts with the new social norms. And you see a lot of people being very worried about the way we use materials in general and plastics in particular, because it's regarded as low value and that's how it ends up in the environment. So we need to change that dynamics and that typically is being done. Yeah, through a push of the party that's closest to the market in the sense, these are the brands and the retailers and they push this responsibility upward in the chain. So, then you get with the converters and eventually with the resident suppliers, and that's where we try, at least with the brand owners and retailers, we try to. Enter into a conversation and see, what do you need in terms of making a more sustainable move or keeping the value high or twitching? and we try to team up with others in the value chain to enable a systemic change So we work together with quite some recyclers. We work with packaging suppliers, but it's all to enable that change to end up with less plastic waste

Cory Connors: 4:58

that's amazing. And I think this is a point that a lot of people don't understand is, the brand has to make the decision, and it has to be, pushed by the consumer generally, because the brand's not going to do it if the consumer doesn't want it, right? So people are often saying, how can I help? How can I help? What can I do to help the environment? And I think the answer is you buy the items that are more sustainable. is that when you agree,

Willemijn Peeters: 5:24

that's one thing that's typically being seen as your footprint in terms of what you use yourself. But what I think is even more important is your handprint. So what is the impact you're making? What is your influence? And that could be by speaking out. If you're like, if you're a journalist, especially, or if you're a podcast interviewer, or if you are working with the government, what kind of legislation can you help to push? Or if whatever you're doing, like in terms of impact, that has an even bigger impact to change that social norm. So I really get to a tipping point where you can shift an industry towards a more sustainable use of materials. And I think that's what we're trying to do as a whole also in the packaging industry from different sides. And everyone can have that impact, not just by looking at your own consuming behavior, but also in terms of the impact you can make in your role. within society.

Cory Connors: 6:16

That's, that's a first for me, handprint. I love that. That is, very, did you come up with that? That's really innovative.

Willemijn Peeters: 6:23

I wish I would, but no, some other people have also smart ideas and tend to learn from those. And I think that is because actually if you're working on sustainability, you have the whole concept of actually, you're not doing it perfectly. Like maybe you're still flying off to events to promote your story or you're doing something else that's unsustainable. That doesn't make your story or a message any less valid. actually, in fact, by having that handprint and that impact, you could have an even bigger effect in terms of societal shifts. And that's why I want to stress that you don't have to be all fanatic about it. Yeah, otherwise you cannot really move. I, for instance, cannot change the plastics industry from my attic. I do have to get out there and talk to people. And change comes with personal connections. So you need to meet the people from time to time.

Cory Connors: 7:08

Oh, I totally agree. And, I've certainly limited, my travel, more last year was way, way too much. And this year I'll be handpicking the events I go to, including Packaging Europe. The sustainable packaging summit, which I've heard that you will be speaking at. So congratulations. Can you tell us what you'll be speaking about?

Willemijn Peeters: 7:29

Yeah, sure. And I think it's going to be an amazing event. I think it's been like that for a few years now. It's really has proven its value, at least to me and quite some other of the industry players that we work with and that I talk to regularly. what I like is that, Yeah, the sustainable packaging summit wants to be an example in the industry of forward thinkers and showing where is moving into, within the packaging sphere. So, I think part of my role there is also to provide some of that inspiration on best practices from within the industry, if especially you're talking about major topics that are also being discussed. At the INCs for the global plastic treaties. So it's talking about topics like extended producer responsibility, about reuse, about product design. Some of the major topics that actually at the start of the value chain will have an impact through the entire life cycle of. Of packaging, and I think that is where change can really happen. If you gather all those industry players and inspire them and show the way forward, especially in collaboration, that's where the magic could happen.

Cory Connors: 8:31

Totally agree. Absolutely and last year, the event was incredible in Amsterdam this year. It'll be November 11th and 12th. Do you know which day you'll be speaking yet, or has Tim told you yet?

Willemijn Peeters: 8:44

You just have to come to both days.

Cory Connors: 8:45

I

Willemijn Peeters: 8:47

haven't decided yet, but it will be, yes.

Cory Connors: 8:51

I'll be there the whole time for sure. I'm very excited about that. So let's talk a little bit about, how packaging professionals like, like me can help our companies, or our customers, engage with what you're doing and, making the, their packaging more sustainable.

Willemijn Peeters: 9:08

What I think is where we can all join forces is helping companies to not just move solo, especially if you look at extended producer responsibility schemes, again, or product design. These are initiatives where you have to align an industry, for instance, on guidelines, packaging tariffs that are going to be really favoring one type of mono material, for instance, over a multi material, but also if you took like looking at reuse, reuse systems could actually be really beneficial, not for all applications, not in all circumstances, but if you run the numbers right, you can see that it is a totally profitable business case and it has a huge potential on avoiding plastic use. So, what I really like is when you come together and say, okay, we could have this one brand switching to a reuse, but actually you won't have any volumes of scale. So it will not be so financially viable, but what if you have a couple of like cross, across retailers and across brands, you have a standardized and harmonized system. Then that's where you can really build that synergies of scale and have bigger uptake also because customers will have more familiarity with the system. They know how to work it because they've been using it in other retailers, or you could use interchangeably for one brand versus the other. So it's going to be a much higher uptake, much more success rate and higher return rates because maybe you have more drop off points or collections really easy. you need to make it really appealing. and there's huge market potential for companies there as well, because you don't touch base with your customer only once, but several times, and you can have them churn and find them like really quickly. Turning them into a fan. So I think that is where I see a lot of promise there. And I think if you, in all these topics, you start to align, especially even on closed loop recycling, you need to partner up and maybe one, one organization would have the best consortium on recycling and you just say, okay, listen. I think you should join this consortium. You should join this setup because actually it will create the biggest value for you. And there's enough work to go around. There's huge, ambitions and targets set in all types of legislation. And, I really like it when, Yeah, the professionals team up and say, listen, I like what you're doing there. Could we maybe, arrange a meeting where some of my clients actually join because, yeah, it's the best for them and it's the best for the consortium if the volumes are there.

Cory Connors: 11:29

Well said the 1st time I heard this, it was called pre competition cooperation, and I love that. I love the fact that these 3 companies that have been competing fiercely for many years can join together and say, hey, what if we did this? And what if that could build loyalty for all of our customer base? Like you said, these consumers are going to be excited, they're going to bring the packaging back to the store or whatever the drop off point is, and it will get reused in perpetuity. this system is possible. our team, Including Chris Bradley, my boss, just, we just won an award for an idea called Jarbot, which is a reusable packaging system that is cross branded amongst all kinds of different products. And, we're very excited about it. So it's, just come out.

Willemijn Peeters: 12:19

Wow, we'll definitely need to talk about that after. Yeah.

Cory Connors: 12:22

Yeah. Yeah. I'll, I'll connect with you after that. what about consumers? what are consumers doing that you would think is like a mistake? And what are consumers doing that is a positive move for the environment?

Willemijn Peeters: 12:33

It's always hard to finger point, what are the consumers doing wrong or what are they doing right? Because I think there's different players within the industry that are doing things right or wrong. There's no right or wrong. I think something is clear or is not clear, or is not on the priority ladder or not. So I wouldn't say what are you doing right? I think you need key conditions in place to avoid plastic waste. And that is if you want to make sure that packaging is collected or sorted in the right way, it needs to be, Simple, stupid. So it's just no other way that it could work and a financial incentive works and social pressure works and ask all the behavioral scientists, because that's what I really is in this challenge, you have both the technology providers, the product specialist and material scientists, but also you need behavioral scientists because it's all about behavior, not just within the consumers, but it's Also within the companies based on what triggers will companies actually move or investors, because for that sense, like you see a lot of pressure, like resulting now from lawsuits or other types of risks, risk related, opportunities that make investors. choose to do more sustainable investments because it actually in the long run, it makes better sense. And otherwise it's a business risk. And you see the same with some types of European legislation when are actually stipulating that you have to report on potential risks for your business from natural disasters, but also from. Litigation. So there's so many pressures that actually force companies to do the more sustainable way of business. And I, and the whole material transition is still in its infancy. I feel like the energy transition is way ahead. But in terms of resources, the way we manage resources is not fully exploited yet. And within packaging, that's definitely the case. There's the whole controversy between paper and packaging is something paper still, if there's a lot of. Plastics on it or plastics and aluminum. that's not really a moment of zero at all. So then if that's not even clear within the industry, how on earth can other, consumers wells or sorters, make any sense out of it or recycle it at value again. So that's where I feel like we, we should really get more alignment in terms of guidelines, in terms of agreements across the industry. And then that could really help to shift the needle.

Cory Connors: 14:55

I love what you said about it must be simple. we have to make it simple and easy for the consumer. And, we're not doing a good job of that yet. I want to talk to you about EPR, extended producer responsibility laws. Is there anything that you see in the near future that you like, that you're excited about that will make it easier and better for our society?

Willemijn Peeters: 15:18

I think. If you ask me personally, of course, I'm a game changer and accelerate. Right. So obviously things that people don't really like, but I see that they are needed for that systemic change. So what I really feel should be done, and that's what I like in some EPR schemes is a change of pricing. So if you start pricing materials. In a more true way, so in terms of true pricing, you will include the true pricing of for instance, virgin plastics, which make it much easier for recycled plastics to compete at the moment. It's way too expensive for us like plastics to give a business case. A lot of recyclers are struggling, whereas there's lots of subsidies. On fossil fuels. So that's creating an unequal playing field. And I think if you want to have a different reality, you need to change the rules of the game. So if you have an EPR scheme, that includes a just transition for workers, but also truer pricing. I think that is where you're trying to get to a truer and juster system where materials are taxed more. and paid for more, and then you can think about the dynamics, how to keep that value. And you don't have waste management anymore, but we have resource recovery, which will help you to be more resource independent. So you're at the other elements, you will actually reduce risks because you don't depend on any areas where there might be any struggles or political, sensitivity. So that's why I really like the fact that if we're using. Pricing to, because that's what companies based their decisions on. If there's a different price trigger, then they will shift and there's a business case to be made because the return on investment is pretty good. That's the reason why also there's technologies out there that could make packaging from CO2, for instance, but. The business case does add up so it will still be marginal. And if you change that dynamics again, then obviously it would make sense. So that's what I get really excited about.

Cory Connors: 17:21

Yeah, well said it has to be profitable and fair for the economy to work. I love that waste management. No, let's go to resource recovery and that's. It's exactly what it is. We're using our resources, to make packaging and let's recover that and use it again to have a true circular economy someday. I think it's possible, but it's going to take a long time. Well, I'm very excited to meet you will mine in, in Amsterdam at packaging Europe in November. can you tell the audience, how to get in touch with you before then?

Willemijn Peeters: 17:54

Yeah, sure. So just drop me a note on LinkedIn and try to share as much as possible about the recent developments that are going on. But if you have any questions in particular, just drop me a note and I'm happy to get back to you and get in touch.

Cory Connors: 18:08

Great. Thank you again. Appreciate your time.

Willemijn Peeters: 18:11

Likewise. Thanks a lot, Corey.