Scrapp Recycling CSO Mikey Pasciuto

https://www.scrapprecycling.com/

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mikey@scrapprecycling.com 

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Transcript

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Cory Connors: 0:00

Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guest is my friend, Mr. Mikey Pasciuto , who is the Chief Sustainability Officer at Scrappp Recycling, and he is full of amazing information and statistics, and he is an awesome friend of mine. So let's talk about it. Mikey, tell us who you are. Welcome to the show.

Mikey Pasciuto: 0:22

Thank you for having me, Corey. It's a, this is my favorite podcast to be on just because we get to talk. Thank you. Like I always usually have to do the questions of like, how does recycling work or I have to keep it very high level. I like this podcast because we can really dive into the weeds. Cause I think anybody who's crazy enough to tune into a packaging podcast, loves the content and wants to know more. So this is my favorite spot to be on.

Cory Connors: 0:46

I'm honored. Thank you, sir.

Mikey Pasciuto: 0:47

So, I guess a little bit about myself. So I am the chief sustainability officer and co founder at Scrappp, my background. So I did not actually get a packaging degree or you and I were joking about this before, where I stumbled into this field completely by accident. My background. I used to do. Do a lot of military aerospace and like medical components, that kind of mechanical engineering. That's my degree. So I was used to doing like ultra high precision work. And then I met the field of packaging, which is just as precise, but in a very different way where you're producing a ton of things. I studied abroad in New Zealand and then I had to change a heart about the field I wanted to go in. So I ended up declaring a sustainability dual major and I have a minor in sustainable energy. So I really. Just love all things sustainability, sustainable systems. And during my tenure at UNH, I created a startup called Scrapp again, by accident. I just like to steer into the skid a little bit as a human being. and from there we entered an idea competition with Scrapp to, for a chance to win 25, 000. We lost the competition, but we sent it into the EPA as well as a joke. The tagline at the time was recycle your crap with our app. we got invited to speak at the EPA. It was like us, WM, Nestle. And the reason they invited us is they said, we haven't A, had a pitch this funny before. It's hilarious. And then two, we felt it was actually a really good idea. So when the director of the EPA looks at you and says, this is a good idea, keep going. You just have to shrug your shoulders and go, well. Guess we're going to keep going. That was four and a half years ago, and I'm still here. So

Cory Connors: 2:19

still cranking, still, entering data in your system. I think this is one of the most valuable parts of your company is all of the data you've mined from the globe really, and from retail and industrial companies. it's incredible. I'm excited to see what you'll be able to accomplish with that someday, and how big of an impact this is continuing to have on recycling, and on everyday people's lives. So well done to you, Mikey. Really good job.

Mikey Pasciuto: 2:50

I appreciate that, Corey. Thank you.

Cory Connors: 2:53

Well, you and I know what Scrapp is, but the audience maybe not, hasn't heard. So let's do a quick outline. What is Scrapp? And what is the focus there?

Mikey Pasciuto: 3:04

Sure. So, you may have heard me mention like Scrapp and like in an app, that kind of thing. So that's actually the pun of the name is it actually used to be app for mobile app, but now it's app for like applications because we don't just do mobile. We do a lot with software and data analytics at the same time. So I like to summarize that we're like quick books for waste where you're. Like in house waste accountants. So we track everything about aspects of packaging, when it goes out into the fields and when it's, out on the shelves. And then also as you're going through your design process a little bit, based on the materials and the shapes that you're choosing, what is that going to mean for the recyclability of the product? And how are consumers going to perceive that? And I just use the word consumers, which I don't like using. How are your customers going to perceive that? Because at the end of the day, They're everyday people too, and we like to help bridge that gap between the people that really know the people that tune into this podcast, because they love packaging and the people that don't know the difference between a single stream recycling bin and, the transfer station down the road. And that's really what we specialize in is helping communities, organizations all goes to zero waste or minimize their waste through recycling and other avenues, all powered by data and easy to use technology. That's really what we specialize in.

Cory Connors: 4:15

Well, it's an incredible system, and I think it's got, really big future in front of it. So well done. let's talk about how companies can get involved with you there. I know there's several different ways and they can submit their data to you. Right? Exactly. So they can be a part of the solution.

Mikey Pasciuto: 4:35

So we actually have, it's called a brand verified program. So it's totally free. and people are like, okay, where's the catch? There actually isn't one because our platform depends on the ability to educate people about specific products, and then also help service our business clients by having their procurement information into the platform. So for brands, it's a value add for us because we're getting high quality data into the platform. The incentive for brands to participate is that if by uploading your Product information to our platform and not the entire product information. We know master data is quite sensitive. Just the brand name, the product name and the barcode and then the packaging components that accompany it. We can then advise on the recyclability of the product across all of the jurisdiction we cover, which currently is U. S. Canada and U. K. And we're expanding out, to, you Pretty rapidly. So you get free global recycling guidance, and then we get high quality data. That's really how that relationship works from the brand side. And then for companies, a lot of companies now are bringing us in because they're having. Difficult relationship with haulers slash, they don't have that agency over waste to really understand how to reduce it, how to even recycle it, or, like. How that relationship works for these companies that have these massive and environmental goals and have to get to 0 waste. We help bridge that gap through technology data and easy to use low cost like interfaces for people to really. Make that step where it's not also daunting and that's I recently became a true advisor, true waste advisor, which is the only, 0 waste accreditation for, facilities that, so I can actually help facilitate that process as well. Not just give the technology and say, hope you have a good time with it. We actually get our hands dirty and go into these sites and help them.

Cory Connors: 6:21

That's incredible. Let's talk about that a little bit. How did you, find out about that program? Did you, did they reach out to you? How did, is it like a series of tests or what, how does it work? So

Mikey Pasciuto: 6:33

it's about an. Eight hour class to take to become true. it's actually like very accessible, which is what I liked about the program. Some programs it's like 10, 000 for a sticker. And obviously we live in a certification economy where everybody's qualified in different regards, but I didn't want to do something that. Was just to pad my resume. I wanted to do something that took a different approach. And so with true, you can go, I think it's brought on by GBC. I is the acronym for it. It's like the green building council Institute or certification Institute. You can sign up for this course. There's a registration fee. You take the. The course online and for me in core yourself, you could become a true waste advisor pretty easily because we work so closely with the industry. A lot of people, their first foray into the industry is through true, especially on the facility side. So what was nice for me with taking true is I already knew all the lingo and the slang and, they might have a couple different terms. But what was really interesting about the program is we got, I got to see firsthand how companies view the packaging we provide. And because it's a different lens and a different relationship, because it just made me think a lot more about consumers at the same time or customers at the same time and everyday people is that they don't perceive their propane tank any differently than they do their cereal box. Once they're both empty, they need to go away, even though how you dispose of those. In the eyes of packaging and waste people is radically different. 1, if it gets on a line, it might blow up. The other might be highly desired material. The everyday person doesn't understand that. And that was really interesting about the true waste program is you got to look at packaging and waste from a. From an expert lens, but also the everyday person lens that is sitting there trying to understand what to do. From a facilities level and a personal level,

Cory Connors: 8:23

that's a fantastic way to think about it. I think, I'll often have people react to my posts or my content and say, I just have a full recycle bin and it's really frustrating. And I want you to figure out how to make that easier to recycle, make things easier, make things, they're looking at it, like you said, from their lens, from their life, do they care about the minutia? well, the answer is a lot of times, yes, they do. They want to be a part of the solution, but they're not finding the answers that they need to the point where even at a, an event where you've got hundreds of experts. Sometimes people will be uncertain. Okay. is this recyclable or is this, waste, and I think that's, I think that's why Scrapp is so valuable to the everyday consumer is your app allows them to just. Easily look it up and find that out for wherever they are. Was it you that said 20, 2, 700 different, recycling, schemes or

Mikey Pasciuto: 9:32

28, 135, that's been the topic of my week. We've adopted a new infrastructure on the backend that allows a lot more sophistication. So I can touch on this a little bit, cause I just brought it up. So I actually, so The human version of the database is myself. I locked myself in my room for four months and looked up every single recycling scheme in the country about three years ago and we update it yearly. and so what we've, how we initially evaluated recyclability was good, but it was designed for recycling. It wasn't designed for other aspects of waste. Or when we talk about it, it's reduce, reuse, recycle. It was a very much an endpoint minded solution. As we've pivoted away from that where we're still Scrapp and Scrapp recycling, we're Might be changing the name mildly soon. It'll still be Scrapp, but maybe like Scrapp solutions or something to that effect, because a lot of people email us going, what are you paying per ton of cardboard right now? And I'm like, I'm not a recycler. I just help people know where things go. Yeah. So when we talk about, the way we've structured the new system is it's designed to look at the product as well, because we had a lot of people give feedback and say, look, the app's great. It tells me what to do with my packaging, but I know what to do with a shoe box. What do I do with my shoes? And that's the biggest part is that it made me realize where I forgot my everyday perspective as just the everyday person that people don't see the product and packaging waste any differently. So we had to adapt our system to be so precise that if you need to, for the people that love that minutiae, right? They love to know What's the recyclability bottle versus an HDPE bottle? What about an HDPE natural jug versus an HDPE, colored or dyed jug? So we actually look at that minutia pretty like granularly and even gauge for size as well, to like in real time, compute these recycling schemes to get it ultra accurate down to that long size, shape, material contents that were inside of the packaging, we analyze it across like every core aspect that is of concern. We actually tell that back to the person using the app. we don't just say it's a plastic bottle, recycle it. We say this is a PET bottle with an HDPE cap and a type 7 wrap label that is multi layered plastic. For best recycling, hold the wrap label off and put the PET bottle with the cap on in the bin. And we have like different like protocols between accepted components, rejected components, neutral components. it's a lot of logic. Okay. Tip my hat to our technical team for putting up with this system in and of itself because of how difficult it was to code.

Cory Connors: 12:03

Well, it's a lot. it's a huge issue. It's a huge part of the world. It's a huge, situation that we've put ourselves into. we, for so long, it was, diversify kinds of packaging, how many multi layers can we have, to, to accomplish all these different things. and then it got to the point where, wait, how do we recycle it when we glue all this stuff together? This isn't working. this is an issue. so things are changing for the better. It's exciting to see. But I wanted to talk to you a little bit about a couple of the recent wins that you've had, so that people will understand how does this get put into use in the world. Can you tell us about Heathrow?

Mikey Pasciuto: 12:49

Yeah, so we are actually in London Heathrow Airport at the current moment. So, with London Heathrow Airport, that was a challenge. That was a two year process to get that started. And Heathrow's been great, but they are the most secure airport in the world and the most traveled airport in the world. So, you can find us located in Terminal 5. I actually had my, we got a text from my younger cousin. And, she's a girl, but from Europe. At six in the morning our time and we immediately thought Oh my God, Liam Neeson taken, which was not the situation. Her and her friend were in front of the separation station at Heathrow and they went, Oh my God, we found Mikey's stuff in the wild. Like we didn't even know it was here. So we had a really cool moment where it was like, Oh my God, people actually seeing the stations and people are actually talking about them, which is great, which isn't our business model at all. We don't do robotic smart bins because they're very complicated and that's it. They're good at what they do. It's just not our. Business model, all the separation station does in Heathrow is it tells people what they can recycle inside Heathrow based on the bins in front of them with a barcode scan, or they can tap a tile on the screen ultra low tech. The sophistication comes in the software, and it's a really approachable and cost effective way. But the challenges of getting that on site where we had to, we have to get passes every time we have to go on site at Heathrow. We're not allowed to just, walk in with a toolbox. we have to get a prearranged appointment to go airside without a ticket.

Cory Connors: 14:11

Wow.

Mikey Pasciuto: 14:11

And so it was a huge hurdle logistically where you're having to put on military having to go on site and that was like a really proud moment for us when it finally clicked and went off.

Cory Connors: 14:22

How's the, congratulations. That's incredible. How has the response been to, to these, stations?

Mikey Pasciuto: 14:29

So far, pretty good. We get the occasional person asking, why can't it sort for me? And, that's where we actually have a partner that makes smart bins. They're awesome. they make them out of their garage in Virginia. John Stark is a very cool guy. so like we actually like people like, can we get the robot robotics stuff? We refer them out, but the response has largely been positive for people. Even before we turn the stations on, we had to set up like the hardware first before we like flick the on switch. People were going up and reading the billboard, scanning the QR code to get it on mobile. Like people were genuinely interested in this. And I like to say people are genuinely interested in recycling and composting. I just don't think we've done that. Best way of educating about it. And when you educate and you meet people at the people level and personalize it, they're much more responsive to that. And I think that the everyday person uptake has been like pretty dramatic. We've actually gotten people reach out to us just from seeing them in Heathrow, which is great.

Cory Connors: 15:25

What an awesome, advertising for your company and you're exactly right consumers don't know what to do. Most of the time I, you and I travel a lot and I find myself standing at a, at an airport terminal waiting for, airplane to be ready to board. And they have a bunch of bins there and they'll be, they're all, they all seem to be different no matter where you are in the world. And consumers are confused by all of them. So it's, I think what you're offering is a peace of mind and, an opportunity for people to really learn the difference in, recycling, composting, or whatever the case may be.

Mikey Pasciuto: 16:06

And that's a huge thing is bins get confusing. I was so confident one time at waste expo, somebody went, what color are recycling bins? And I went green. And they're like, they're blue. I was like, what? It turns out everywhere, but new England, like cause organics at curb, like for the early single stream groups, it was blue or black for trash. Rain for recycling, but organic waste was never even on the radar. The new or the States with newer infrastructure have the green for compost and then blue for recycling. So for me, I saw these bins. I'm like, how many bins have I just like recyclables in the food waste bin, not even thinking, because that, that fundamental opinion of what goes, where is completely subjective to where you're from and that's why recycling on college campuses and composting on college campuses, for that matter, it's very difficult because you have a bunch of people from different perspectives and different. Upbringings coming together to try and recycle all this correctly when it looks different to everybody. And then the materials accepted in the first place are different, not to mention the bins are different. So it's a very complicated user experience that we have.

Cory Connors: 17:08

Well said. We're all in different situations. We all have different lifestyles. You've recently analyzed one of our very good friends, Recycling Habits, or I should say, Consuming Habits, for a whole year. Let's talk about Fred. Let's talk about this program that you just did with him.

Mikey Pasciuto: 17:31

Yeah. So, we, it's funny, Fred and I keep joking. Like he's what's the opening punchline to the presentation we're going to give where it's like an Italian American and a guy from Oregon walk into a Welshman's packaging museum, that's basically how this all started or you were with me when we first met Fred, basically a handshake agreement happened where Fred's I have a year's worth of plastic and I'd have no idea how to count it. And I said, well, I'm actually a waste accountant. So call this. Do some do six Makina or perfect timing. Yeah. I'll agree. I'll count all this up. do you care? this is your family's like kind of personal information. Like I know what you're buying. Like it's a trusted thing. He's yeah, I trust you. You're good. So, actually stayed with Fred and his family. So I stayed with, Fred, Elizabeth and Fion, and pretty much every morning we'd all wake up. drop Fiona off at school and then head to the office and counts up all these different items of plastic. And with the way I structured it, so completely before I got my certification, we actually do things on the true zero waste audit model, which is not that you're saying there's this much cardboard. There's this much plastic. You actually itemized it by specific record and specific item. So when I did this waste audit, I weighed every single item. Every single cap, every single bottle, every single label for every single unique product. And I itemized that in the same way we do in our system. So at any point in time, Fred can look back on this audit and know I consumed this many fair life items in this month at this time. I consumed this many, Don dish soaps and this month and you can actually only Fred will know this because I obviously didn't pry into his personal behaviors, but you could see like I could tell when they had a New Year's Eve party because there was a bunch of takeaway cups. I can tell when they were working longer hours because there was more takeaway from sushi and these different kinds of things. I'd like to summarize that experience by waste tells a story and it unites us all because when you look at people's waste habits, we're really not all that different. We all buy a toilet paper. We all buy paper towels. We all buy the foods and the things that we like. And that was a really cool experience working with Fred and he's the master of branding and he's now making this into a really fun, engaging presentation. And we've been going back and forth since. So I actually have a. One of a kind waste audit of an entire family's years worth of plastic and I'm potentially looking to expand that out next year Do it at my own house across every material type

Cory Connors: 19:50

Wow, That's huge, which I'll need

Mikey Pasciuto: 19:54

to get the family on board before I load up the garage, but we're gonna try

Cory Connors: 19:58

Yeah, I'd love to hear that conversation with your parents. Yeah, that sounds awesome. But, this went back even a little bit further. Our friend Evelio Mattos was having a conversation with Fred and Fred is the founder of Hive and Hive is one of the top branding agencies or agencies in the world, as far as I know, working with some of the largest companies. So his background is. Brands and logos and feel of packaging and, the, how a consumer reacts when they see a point of purchase display. And so his vision into the mindset of the consumer is incredible. And, like he said, we met him, we just happened to get invited to his place and we saw all the stuff sitting everywhere and said, what's all this? And he said, well, I'm keeping my, my. Waste for a year. And Mikey said, well, let's work on that together. That sounds really awesome. And I'm, it's an amazing thing how all of these, components came together to make something that we think, and we know will be, totally unique and impressive.

Mikey Pasciuto: 21:06

it was really cool to go alongside it with Fred to a because of like his mastery and like branding where my expertise lies in engineering. I've never seen I would never think is gravity really subjective. It just is. And meanwhile, everything about brand is subjective. he was taking calls as I was doing all the audits and just hearing him at work, talking about branding and positioning and all these different things, packaging is That vessels obviously to get the product to the shelf and ultimately to the person who's enjoying the product, but it is so much more that goes into that with style choices and everything. And we've just never thought of the sustainability till now, because of Fred's packaging museum, he held up like seven different Hellman's like mayonnaise containers, and he actually held up with the ones that we had come across during the auditing. Do you see the progression? Do you see the changes in this package and how this old Hellman's Mayo container is actually like really cool and like I've kept it and people like to find it entertaining and then the newer ones not to pick on Hellman's in particular, but he's it's just plastic that people want to get rid of the perception of the package is completely different now,

Cory Connors: 22:10

right? It went from being something that was reusable. often, like milk containers and, juice bottles and Coke and Pepsi and all these companies had reusable packaging, that would, oftentimes be a keepsake. you look at those, those old English cookies, the tins, the round tins that, that everybody's grandma used for, sewing supplies. Yeah. I was just, you took the words out of my mouth. Yeah. To the point where people would be disappointed when they opened up, to see, or they would be surprised sometimes to open the tin and see cookies. but yeah, you're right. it's a lesson in how we have interacted differently with packaging. And, Chris Bradley and I from Orora will often talk about, how we're going back to the past with reusable packaging schemes and programs and how we think there's a lot of potential there, for all of us to work together to make packaging more circular.

Mikey Pasciuto: 23:10

Absolutely. And that, that brings up a really funny point. I usually joke about, so like whenever I go, I'm my grandmother's tech support. So I go over and fix the laptop and we'll always like, she'll ask like how work's going on that stuff. And I'll talk to her about waste and, she's in her eighties. And so she has a very different perspective on waste. Like I'll find plastic bags and a drawer in a closet. And I'm like. you can recycle those at the store, throw them away, even. She's no, you never know when I'm going to need them. My grandfather, after my other grandparents passed, I, I was in charge of cleaning out the house. I found paperwork from like 1975. That mentality to throw things away is entirely unique to this generation and the generation before mine. It's not, that's learned behavior. That is not. It's very new. Like anybody born 1945, 1950, like they kept things and you were taught to hold onto things and keep them until they were useful. So I think you might, you mentioned the reusable packaging with what, Chris Bradley, he gave an awesome presentation, at SPC one time around reusables and everybody always says, Oh, people don't want the, they want the convenience. They want the, they won't reusables won't get the uptake that we want. And I pushed back on that where it's saying it, this is a learned behavior. There's gonna need time to change and really see the uptake, but nobody really takes joy in taking the trash out every week. So if you can minimize that, I think we're onto something.

Cory Connors: 24:37

Absolutely. very true. I'm excited to see the future of sustainability, the future of Scrapp and what you all accomplished in the near future and the long term future. let's talk about that a little bit. what, what's coming up next? You're going to be speaking at some events coming up.

Mikey Pasciuto: 24:56

So, I will be, there's a couple in between. I know we just talked about like jam pack and our pack jam. I should say, I will be at, sustainability and pharmaceuticals in Philly, I think that's early June, first or second week of June. they brought me in to talk about sustainable packaging and medicine because medicine has a whole different hurdle to clear, because obviously you have, the, Drug contact with the package. Also, there's sometimes people that are, arthritic disabled that can't open certain packaging types. So not only are you handling recyclability, recycled content, and all these other challenges, you have extra things on top of that. So I'll actually, I'll be there as well in terms of the circuit. And then, there will be a Hive event soon. I don't know when, but I'll be there around September. whenever that comes around. Talking about

Cory Connors: 25:40

your project with Fred, that's exciting.

Mikey Pasciuto: 25:43

Yeah, well, we're going to have a, it was actually a really fun time. Like it is as fun as counting. I think I counted over 812 unique items alone. And then there was multiples of that. Some has upwards of 173 of that single item because 173 disposable forks. So, I spent a, we got, we bonded a lot over the. Waste heap in front of us.

Cory Connors: 26:05

Well,

Mikey Pasciuto: 26:05

so I'll be excited for that presentation.

Cory Connors: 26:07

He's a good guy. he's a lot of fun. And I enjoy being around people like Fred. Cause they've seen a lot, they've experienced a lot and they'll teach you just by being around them, lessons from the past that can be valuable today. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, very exciting. Thanks for being on the show again. I think this is your second or maybe even your third time. I don't know.

Mikey Pasciuto: 26:30

I think second or it's just me. I think third or fourth where I hopped on with you and Adam and Amelia and whatnot. Before I forget, also, we're taking early access signups, so we're doing a 60 day free trial with Scrapp. Services. So brand verified free always will be free. I grew up on my grandfather's ideology of an education should ever be paywalled. It should be something with open access. So if you just need to educate people about your products, that's brand verified and that's free. but in terms of some of the paid services we're offering, they're titled Scrapp for brands and retailers and then Scrapp for facilities or business footprints. So with that, you can track your waste as somebody who sends waste out. To different facilities and sites or somebody that receives a lot. It needs to categorize it and itemize it that way. There'll be a 60 day open act early access. It's in beta and then you can test it out. You can tell us you love it. You can tell us you hate it. And then also we're launching the packaging producer network. Soon as well with that, any packager, they can have their packaging evaluated by us and they can list it on our platform. So when our customers are looking for more sustainable alternatives, there's a spot ready right there for them to make the switch to more sustainable choices.

Cory Connors: 27:41

Wow, that's incredible. And how do people get in touch with you? is the best through the website or through LinkedIn or?

Mikey Pasciuto: 27:48

LinkedIn, I check it, sparingly, so, you can absolutely reach out to me if I don't talk to you for two or three days. I'm not ignoring you, I just haven't been on. email is the best, Mikey, M I K E Y, at, Scrapp, S C R A P. A P P and then recycling. So R E C Y C L I N G. com. And then, through the website, there's an inquiries form too. You'll get into contact with any member of the team, either myself or Ev, my CEO, we manage the inquiries inbox. So we're very easy to find. you could even send me a text if you wanted to, we're pretty responsive.

Cory Connors: 28:20

So, Thank you, sir. I appreciate your wisdom. I appreciate what you're doing for the environment and for all of us in the world. So nice job, Mikey, keep it up.

Mikey Pasciuto: 28:29

Thanks so much, Corey. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate you as always. So.

Cory Connors: 28:32

Thank you, sir.