Sustainable Packaging

Michigan State University school of packaging / Mr. Aaron Tucker

January 02, 2022 Cory Connors Season 2 Episode 38
Sustainable Packaging
Michigan State University school of packaging / Mr. Aaron Tucker
Show Notes Transcript

https://www.canr.msu.edu/packaging/
How can we educate future packaging professionals in the art of sustainability?
What is the first ever school of packaging in the USA?
What are the two options for the school of packaging at MSU?
https://www.tiktok.com/@pkgadvisor?
https://www.tiktok.com/@corygated?

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Cory Connors:

Welcome to sustainable packaging with Cory Connors I'm really excited about my guest today, Mr. Aaron Tucker, who is the Michigan state university academic advisor to graduate and undergraduate students. Hey Erin, how are you?

Aaron Tucker:

Oh, I am great. Thank you so much for having me, you

Cory Connors:

know I'm thrilled. We've been talking for all like a year, almost trying to schedule this because it's so important to me to understand how the students of packaging are learning about sustainability. And so, but I wanna, I want to start first about kind of your background. How did you get into packaging and, and then into this.

Aaron Tucker:

Definitely. So I'm like most people, you know, it was not a straight shot. Right. My, my educational background is actually not impacted shape. So I have a undergraduate degree in communications, which led me into the sign and graphics industry. So in that, that. In that industry, you're working with multiple substrates. You're, you're creating, you're building, you're working with customer. So similar to what you're doing is, you know, as a graphic design artists or, or I always like to say the architectural design right. Of, of a, of a package. So working one-on-one with customers that brought me into academia. So working with, with people really led me to go back to my passion, which was literally just working with students. So I received a master's degree in you could say lifelong education or higher ed. So which led me to academic advising and. At that time I was working with exploratory students. So students that are just finding their way. So really similar to working with, with customers and industry, you know, you're helping them find their passion, find their goal in, in what they're looking for. An opportunity arose to be part of the school package and here at Michigan state. And I knew immediately that this is where I want it to be. Now I joke and say, you know, I'm a lifer now. I really don't see myself, you know, in any other industry. And, and I live, I truly live vicariously through our students and, and to see the amazing things that they're doing.

Cory Connors:

It's such an important role that you're serving. I remember being in college and not having any idea what I wanted to do. I thought I wanted to go into advertising and, you know, I thought, ah, that sounds interesting, but I was terrible at advertising. I, my creative genes are not there. It just didn't work. But then I went into the business side of things and started getting really good grades and started, you know, so. You know, to work with a counselor like yourself and an advisor is so key to success for students. I highly recommend get very close to an advisor like yourself.

Aaron Tucker:

That that is you know, for me, I always tell all my students, like I could care less if you received, you know 30 on your act or a 15, right? Those are numbers. It's, it's your hard work and your dedication to, you know, your future goals and success. And, and that's, that's a big part of it is talking with your academic advisor and making sure you are on the most appropriate. Yes,

Cory Connors:

absolutely. And, and then, you know, I'm, I'm very excited to talk to you about the school. The school that you work at is one of the most famous packaging schools in the world. I don't want to. The most famous, because I can't confirm that, but it's, it's certainly one of about three that I hear about all the time in the industry. And so can you tell us about, you know, the, the programs, the, the, the direction the school is heading? I remember six months ago, you tell, you were telling me that you had a big announcement coming. Can we, can we make that announcement today?

Aaron Tucker:

Yeah. So actually the announcement happened Oh boy, maybe a month or two ago. And we have an amazing director here at the school of packaging Dr. Matthew Dom, and, you know, we joke and say, you know, he's our Yoda or you know, our golden boy he has worked tirelessly since his arrival. Maybe a year and a half ago to like he came in right when the pandemic started. Oh, wow. So he actually, he accepted and he worked from home for. For over a half a year. Geez. So that, that was, you know, a rough start, you know, for everyone, but he's just been working tirelessly, you know, with, with multiple partners and an industry and and even not an industry, right. To support our students. And one of those partners is Amcor Amcor So graciously has committed to a$10.8 million donation for the school. Which w the, and that hit the news release or the press. I would like to say it's been almost two months now, and it has been a warm welcome. It, it's almost like a breath of fresh air. And in academia you know, with any school, regardless if you're privately or, or publicly funded, and there was always to challenge us in funding and having the support from Amcor has been a true blessing. And what's been. What's even more important with that donation and that contribution is a large some of that contribution is going directly towards a a tenured faculty chair for sustained. Wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. And that, that was, that was part of the agreement. Yeah. And, and the other part of that funding is actually for, for an amazing facelift for the school of packaging. It's been decades since we have remodeled. And needless to say after six months, a lot of stuff is out of date anyways. Right. So we are looking forward to breaking ground and renovations in January and huge shout out to Amcor and, and their whole team for, for coming in and working with Matt and listening to, you know, our needs and, and, you know, supporting the students of the school of packaging now. And then the.

Cory Connors:

That's amazing. So when you say breaking ground, are you, are you building new buildings or can you tell us a couple of projects that we are.

Aaron Tucker:

Yeah, we are renovating, we we are so fortunate to have our own building already. So we, yeah, yeah. We have a whole building dedicated towards packaging. So, and if, if you were to come and I hope, you know, you and everyone else who is listening, have the opportunity to come and visit us. We have some amazing labs and technology, but when you walk in. It looks like you want, you're walking into the eighties. Right. And that's really great on, on spirit weekends, you know? But so we're getting new space for graduate students. We're getting more space for students can study where allow more natural light to come in technology upgrades. So. I think this will really set the bar for students coming in. And I always talk with students. I know you mentioned the other packaging programs. We have students all the time who explore those programs and they have an amazing programs or they have amazing programs as well. And this might just set us apart. With, with our recent upgrades and additions to our labs. So I'm super excited about

Cory Connors:

that. Definitely. I just interviewed Julie from packaging school.com and you know, that could be the next step for your students after they graduate, you know, some continued education, I'm planning to take the class there. So you know, But I know I saw that announcement. Amcor also announced that they are making a brand new mano material pill packaging. And so that I think fits right in with what you're talking about with sustainability and recyclability and things like that. So it's exciting. It's an exciting time to be a part of packaging.

Aaron Tucker:

It is you know, there are so many companies that, you know, maybe in the last five years, probably a decade that. Your know goals for, for more sustainable packaging. And you I've already seen it like on the shelves where you know, more film is, is being replaced with more sustainable packaging. It's truly amazing to see that. And, and, and if you don't mind, I'd love to go back just a little bit. You, you mentioned, you know you know, the, the prestige of our institution, We were the first packaging program in the world. And when I tell, when I tell, you know, prospective students and even current students now, they're like, how right. Well, we didn't create packaging, right? Packaging has been around for thousands of years, right. In one form or another. And, but, but what we did, we helped turn it into a science. Right. And it's, it's been truly a blessing and we actually broke off of forestry in 1952. So we are affiliated, right? So a lot of people, they say the same thing. So we were affiliated with our college of ag and natural resources, which, which is amazing because. That's how Michigan state was established. You know, we're a land grant institution. We're the first land grant institution and being a part of our college of ag and natural resources just really fits right into that. We are the only packaging program in the United States that offers a PhD impacted. We have an amazing master's program as a and our undergrad is being revamped right now. We we'd like to consider ourselves at the top. Right. But there's no, there's no body right now to indicate like, who is. But we can say that we have produced more packaging graduates than any institution in the United States that are currently employed in the United States. And some data and statistics indicate whether we produce over 50% of the current packaging professionals that are employed in the United States. So when we, when we say we roll deep, we, we really wrote the.

Cory Connors:

Those are big numbers. Congratulations.

Aaron Tucker:

Well, I mean, it's, it's just, you know, it's, it's those before me. Right. And I'm I'm just, you're riding on their coattails and it's just super exciting to be a part of such an amazing

Cory Connors:

And that makes sense to me that the, the, you know, forestry would be connected with the packaging. I used to work at Weyerhaeuser. That's where I got my start. When I was 18 years old, I graduated high school and I didn't want to go to college. I wasn't ready for it. So I went and worked in a box plant full-time for a year and maybe. And working at Weyerhaeuser taught me how connected obviously trees and paper are. And so that makes sense to me. And that's a really cool connection. I like that. Yeah.

Aaron Tucker:

Yeah. As you can see, we have some you know, corrugated stuff. We love corrugated board and you could do so much with, with corrugated boards.

Cory Connors:

Yeah. For those of you listening and not watching the video yet, I will post this on YouTube so you can watch the video eventually, but behind Aaron is a Spartan helmet. It looks like it's made out of corrugated to me. Yeah, that's

Aaron Tucker:

awesome. Yeah. And actually we partnered with a company, Onyx packaging who worked with us on that. So shout out to Onyx and you know, we have students You know, who can create some amazing you know, projects with corrugated board and really just lets our artistic creativeness just flow. So amongst other things, we have a glass, you know, packaging competition every year and our students just, oh, some of the things that they've created is just truly amazing.

Cory Connors:

Like the glass is the packaging or you're figuring out how to package glass.

Aaron Tucker:

So the glass is the package. Yeah. So and it could be from Serratia perfume beverages. I've seen some pretty amazing styles incorporated into the, in suit each brand in these products. So super exciting. So if, again, if you get an opportunity to come to the school of packaging, we have a S a whole show. Dedicated to, you know, our students work and projects, and we love just showing, you know, the, the public and alumni, you know, what we're doing. And speaking of alumni, we have a very, very strong alumni presence that really, really support us. So the, the package alumni association support us through scholarships. They help support our tutoring help room. So, and so we, yeah, we have a tutoring help room, so, and this is just for our packaging students myself and I'm. And I'm very honest, you know, with, with everyone my math in chemistry skills were not where they needed to be. When I started college and I worked very hard to get where I needed and we see a lot of students where they. With those, those math and chemistry and even physics. And because they, they have to get through those courses right. To, to get to the fun courses. Right. So they can understand the material and have that background knowledge. But we have a philosophy here that if anyone wants to be a packaging, We're going to give them the tools needed to be successful. Right. And so, so we do have a standard, right? So they have to get a certain GPA in each course and a cumulative GPA. But you know, we have students who come in, you know, very low, low math, but we give them the tools needed to be successful. We work with them and they do eventually get admitted. So yeah. So shout out to the VA as well.

Cory Connors:

I can certainly relate to that. I remember taking a statistics three times in college. It's hard. There are certain classes that just don't work with your brain. You know, it just takes time. So tutoring is so key to success. So are you, are you finding that your students are, are more focused on sustainability now than.

Aaron Tucker:

So we, we, this is so interesting because we have students that go into two tracks here at Michigan state, and one is more value chain, supply chain oriented. And the other is packaging science, which, which leads to sustainable. Very often you will find students actually doing both because they literally want the best, the best of most, or the best of both worlds. So yes, the students are very interested and they understand the importance of sustainability. And, and some students who are not too. Like with sustainability. So, yeah. So I always have to give them that quick, you know, elevator speech. Right. And what I, what I like to say is, you know, just making sure what we have here today is here tomorrow. Right. And that can, and it's, so Jen, Right. And it can get encompassed so much. And if we dig deeper, right. With that, with, with materials, with our lifestyles supplies. So we dig a little bit deeper in that, but to answer your question, Corey, yes. They are very interested and we're actually. I don't know how to frame this, or if I should frame this. Right. But we're, we're changing our curriculum right now to become more Data analytic focused, focused as well as having a requirement and packaging sustainability. So, so we're discussing, right? Cause everything evolves, you know, data analytics and everything involves sustainability. So, and because a lot of students are taking our packaging sustainability course taught by Dr. Raphael. They are seeing the, the benefits of that. And most importantly our industry partners are seeing the benefits of that. So that helps sorts placement either for full-time and internship opportunities as well.

Cory Connors:

Absolutely correct. With the onset of extended producer responsibility it's not going to be optionable anymore. It's going to, it's going to be required. Companies, there's companies that are stepping up already in advance of the requirement. And I think that's really smart. A friend of mine runs a recycling facility in South Africa, and he's already talking about how Coke and Pepsi are changing things. They're increasing their PCR levels for their pet bottles. They've removed green from their Sprite. Went back to clear, you know, things, things like this are changing in advance of extended producer responsibility. But now You know, as it, as it ramps up, I think you'll see more and more requirements. Oh, of

Aaron Tucker:

course it in, you know, to be honest, Corey, you know, prior to coming into packaging, you know, I recycled, right. But I think I recycled it and took it for granted and you know, being in the industry and even, even like on the outside, looking in, I've just been so fortunate enough to see like what actually happens behind this. Right. And the uniqueness and what, and how it can impact our lives for the future. And you know, more people should definitely, definitely, you know, have an opportunity to see that inside, look to the importance of, you know, recycled glass, metals, paper, et cetera. Right. So I

Cory Connors:

totally agree. It's it's such a. It's such an insight into the world. When you realize you don't just throw it in the bin and magically, it becomes something new. Again there are so many steps and so much involved with what we're doing as consumers that we, we must as packaging professionals, teach the consumer what to do with their packaging after they've used it. It's so cool. Yeah. And

Aaron Tucker:

I mean, just from just washing , you know you know, the plastic or glass containers and, you know, just last night I had a salad dressing bottle and you know, my son went to go throw it, you know, in the, we used it right. You have to go throw it in the recycling. I'm like, no stop, stop. He was like, well, what's going on? I know we have to rinse that out first, you know? And so it's, it's just so small things, you know, that, that we could, you know, learn and, and try to take you know, into the future that will definitely, and, and just pass to our friends and family and let them know some of the tricks of the trade. Right. So I

Cory Connors:

oftentimes have people texting me. Is this recyclable? What do you like this? What is this cool packaging? And, and that's, it's an honor to me to even be consulted on things like that. But yeah, so Aaron, you're an expert you've been in, in the packaging school for how many years now?

Aaron Tucker:

This I'm going on four years, four years, four years. I've been in higher ed for over 10, 10

Cory Connors:

years in higher ed. What do you see as the future of sustainable?

Aaron Tucker:

I know, it sounds very generic, wary, but education you know, starting at the ground level and working your way up, because if we are working with our students right now, they're going to see the importance if we instill that in them. Right. So that's. That's on us as educators and it's also on the companies, right? So the, the major companies that are out there as you indicated that have these goals and that are, are beating or on track on pace to, to, to. To meet their goals, it's on them as well. So, so going back to education and making sure our students are aware of what the future may bring. Right. And, and that's from just understanding what that recycle logo means. Right. And what those numbers mean within that logo. And just because you have that logo on there doesn't mean you can recycle it at. Right. You may have to take it someplace else. For an example, we are very fortunate enough to have a company here in Lansing, Michigan that has a drop-off for a styrofoam. Oh

Cory Connors:

yeah. Yeah. What are they called?

Aaron Tucker:

Dark. Okay. Art container.

Cory Connors:

Yeah. Oh, I know. Dark container,

Aaron Tucker:

great company. Yeah. Yeah. They're, they're, they're based here in mid-Michigan and I, I just wish that there were more you know, locations. Right. Cause we, we see a lot of, you know, styrofoam go into the you know, into the trash or, or individuals think, you know, you can recycle it, you know, and it's very difficult to recycle. So so yeah, going back to answer your question. To education to help for better. Yes.

Cory Connors:

I feel like there's there's always been a debate. I mean, I've been focusing on this, you know, I've been in packaging for 24 years now. I've been focusing really on sustainability for the last couple of years. There's this big debate on recycling versus biodegradable . You know, and you know, which one is really better for the world? I haven't answered that question in, in my own head yet. But I think as far, if I had to answer that today, I would say both. We need to figure out how to do. Properly. I just interviewed John from Cruz foam. They're making foam out of chitin. And you know, this is, this is an amazing revelation that, you know, you can almost not recommend it, but you could almost throw it in the ocean that when you're done with it, which is incredible. But we don't want to encourage. Please don't do that, but we want to biodegrade it properly or, or recycle any way we can. It's, you know, you,

Aaron Tucker:

you actually just remind me of something that happened in my chemistry class, in high school. And you know, my, my chemistry teacher she took a packaging peanut and put water on it and it started to dissolve. And that, that was when, the first time that I kind of saw packaging. And, and actually like actually acknowledged it, right. I was in awe and I'm still in all to this day to see that cornstarch breakdown. And I'm like, look at this, look what I could do, you know? So every time I get those peanuts, you know, I look for that texture and to see, you know, is this something that we could break down? So if you haven't had an opportunity to always check your packaging peanuts, to see if you can break those down with with water.

Cory Connors:

Yes, the starch base peanuts are a great option to polystyrene peanuts. For sure. I recommend. Definitely. And they work really well. We've we've seen that happen or so what is what's the best way for people to get a hold of you to get ahold of the school? Is it the website? Yeah, definitely.

Aaron Tucker:

I have a couple of different methods. So www.packaging.msu.edu . That's just visit our undergrad site during the pandemic. I say during like, it's, it's, it's past us, but I had to connect with my students somewhere or in some form. Right. And in emails you can only send so many emails. So I actually started my own. Tik TOK and Instagram account. So I actually received a lot of traffic on there from perspective students, as well as industry partners. So please feel free to follow me and like videos. It's in my app is at@PKGADVISOR a D V I S O R. So PKG advisor.

Cory Connors:

We are friends on Tik TOK. I like your videos. I saw, I saw one the other day where you're talking about go green, go white. I thought that was pretty cool. Yeah. I

Aaron Tucker:

think, I think we were in, I think we were in the Spartan stadium with, with some students, some packaging students took a tour. And, you know, we have some amazing things that we're working on with, you know, not just MSU football, but other departments on campus. And they, they look towards us. Right. So on what we're doing and where the industry is going. So yeah. So at Michigan state, we always say, go green, go white. So that's, that's our our call to action.

Cory Connors:

Well, it sounds like an amazing school and I can't wait to come visit. So thank you so much, Aaron, for your time. We really.

Aaron Tucker:

Corey, thank you for having me and love your videos too. And I know my students love your videos as well, so please continue what you're doing and spreading the good word

Cory Connors:

I'd like to thank Landsberg Orora for continued sponsorship of this podcast. Please take a minute to review and share this with your friends. We truly appreciate it. Thanks again, Aaron.

Aaron Tucker:

Go green.