Sustainable Packaging
Industry Experts discuss all the new materials and ways that packaging can be more sustainable and how we can do our parts to help recycle and reuse. Sustainable Packaging is and will continue to affect us all in our daily lives. We have lots of fun and get down to the real data of what's working to help our planet!
Sustainable Packaging
Paper to Replace Plastic Bubble! / Tom Corrigan and Marcia Popa with Scotch Cushion Lock
https://www.scotchbrand.com/3M/en_US/p/d/cbgbjrus3168/
It's my honor to get to interview Marcia and Tom again to talk about this incredible and sustainable packaging product!
What is Kirigami and how can it replace plastic bubble?
Did you know Scotch Cushion Lock was invention was inspired by a hammock?
A new 175' roll may be the answer for your packaging station!
SPONSORED by Scotch Cushion Lock / 3M
I mentioned that we had published an article on the Folding-Wall Kirigami pattern. Here is the link to the article: https://rdcu.be/dbTDa
And here is the citation for that article in the Nature publication called Communications Materials.
Corrigan, T. et al. Strong conformable structure via tension activated kirigami. Communications Materials 4, 31 (2023).
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Packaging Today Podcast
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https://www.linkedin.com/in/cory-connors/
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Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guests are two of my favorite people in the world of packaging, Tom Corrigan and Marcia Popa. Good afternoon, my friends. How are you? Hey, Corey.
Tom Corrigan:Good. Good. Good to see you.
Cory Connors:Awesome. Let's start, Tom, with your, your title and your role and a little bit about yourself, if you don't mind.
Tom Corrigan:Sure. again, Tom Corrigan, engineer, scientist, and inventor. invented Scotch cushion lock and really just... Play with products and technologies and processes here at 3M with all the amazing, fun people. Awesome. Marcia.
Marcia Popa:Marcia Popa, I'm the Advanced Application Engineering Specialist for Package Protect, specifically our Scotch retail consumer. Goods products, and I have a background in packaging. I've always worked in packaging. So self proclaimed packaging nerd. Yes Thanks, Cory We
Cory Connors:even dressed alike today just for those of you listening. We're all wearing our nerd scotch cushion lock shirts We're very proud of this product and this company It's incredibly sustainable and we're excited to talk about it So, but let's talk about PacExpo. The last time I saw you was in Las Vegas and your booth was incredibly busy and so much fun. I'd love to talk about that with you both.
Marcia Popa:Yep. So Pack Expo, this is our second time doing Pack Expo. Last year, we did Chicago. This year, Vegas, like Corey mentioned. and we had a bigger booth, which was awesome. We had three demo podiums or pedestals, which was great. So we got a lot more, kind of capability to demo and really interact with a lot of people. It was pretty much always busy, stepping in and a lot of excitement and hype. Some repeat. visitors from last year, some that we've already started to work with, but really good, positive hype about and the wow factor when people see our product.
Cory Connors:and Tom, you fulfilled one of your lifelong dreams, by creating a giant thousand foot long ball of Scotch cushion lock. Tell us about that. How did that work out? Yeah, you're
Tom Corrigan:right. You're right, Corey. That was, I don't know, I might have mentioned it to you. I've mentioned it to a lot of people. I kept saying, oh, that'd be really cool. We just need to take a full thousand foot roll. And just wind the whole thing up to make a giant ball. so on day one, I finally first thing in the morning, I said, I'm going to do this. Let's go ahead. It was fun. Actually, it got, it got to be whatever bigger than 3 feet or almost 3 and a half feet. I, I didn't measure the, I'll do it again. And I got to get an actual measurement. But anyways, it was pretty big. It was a, it was more work than I was expecting because it does weigh, it's the full 25, 26 pounds of material. So by the time it gets this big, You're holding it out in front of like rolling it on the floor that shows fast forward to me making it. you can almost see me dripping in sweat because I was interrupted by people to talk about cushion lock in between, but it was fun drew a lot of attention. Who had nothing to do with packaging come by and say, ah, we heard about the big ball. Yes,
Marcia Popa:we actually have a GoPro video of it, the whole thing, that Caleb, one of our co workers put together. So, quite, time lapse of it showing him sapping and starting and making it. And, yeah, it did help draw even more people probably into the booth because we had it right on the edge of the booth. And as people walked by, they'd want to touch it. And we're like, okay. Come on in. Everyone
Tom Corrigan:touched it. Like you almost couldn't walk by without like touching it, which it's a tactile, the product is, that's part of the experience is to see what
Cory Connors:it is. So that was, I think next show we should make a couple of them and we'll have battles with people. We talked about rolling them down the aisles and do all sorts of things. I think it's awesome. I even lifted it up one time and put it over my head and took a, my friend of Evelio Mattos took a picture of me and we posted it. Man, were people interested in that on LinkedIn that they were, they thought that was really cool. So well done. Great promotional idea. it's such a cool product. So that was a thousand foot roll. That's your big industrial roll that turns into, like you said, three and a half foot, four foot wide ball of scotch cushion lock, to create, replace three and a half, three and a third rolls of, plastic bubble. Is that
Tom Corrigan:the
Marcia Popa:equivalent of 2, 500 feet of 12 inch wide by 2, 500 feet, of a three 16th bubble. So 2, 500 feet packing power of a three 16th bubble for, length wise. So that expansion one and a half times the length and the, and just the thickness, it can really fill the volume quicker and more effectively than, plastic
Cory Connors:air bubbles. That's amazing stats there. and the good news is you have yet another, alternative. it's the new smaller dispenser box that I think is going to be very popular. let's talk about that.
Tom Corrigan:Let's
Marcia Popa:unbox it. Yes. Yeah. So this is our 175 foot that hasn't literally come out yet. This is first production basically off from our local line. so you open it up, feels like a saran wrap box, tinfoil box. so this even tips forward a little bit. The angle is a little bit different than you work from than on our metal dispenser. we go pretty much parallel to the counter or the table top surface. This is pull up. Once again, it's always about the tension. So we want to get this so it expands the honeycomb. So it doesn't come out flat, but doesn't rip too easily. So as the role will be used, you'll probably want to change your angle a little bit. We're doing it in midair with my Vanna here, but, as you use it, you might, because the role gets lighter.
Cory Connors:That's Mr.
Marcia Popa:Vanna. At the end, you might need to. even hold the role in place similar to what you have to do with tinfoil, when you get to the end, because we really didn't want to add a lot of other things in there. So it's just a corrugated box. There's a little insert kind of as a cradle underneath there. And then the Cushion lock in it, not on a spindle or anything like that. So that's our new we're thinking maybe for like mail rooms, maybe Etsy sellers, people that don't need 1000 feet, maybe don't use it That quickly, but would still have that. Plus, it's a little more mobile. You could move it around. If it's in a mail room, I could take it to an office when somebody is packing up something, move it on down. so that's yeah, our newest to be hitting, I believe in the next couple of months and other retailers.
Cory Connors:Oh, that's exciting. And you're right. There is a lot of demand for a smaller roll. maybe temporary. Like you said, you have 20 packing stations and only, 10 of them need that. So, you don't need the thousand foot roll. You need the 175 foot. That's really smart design. I love how when you open it up, it looked like there was instructions right there too.
Tom Corrigan:Yep, yep. As part of the design, give you a little bit of, feedback on how to actually use it as
Marcia Popa:well as, a lot of information on the box itself. It'll ship it on container. So, some of that might get covered up by a label, obviously, but there's instructions. We've already taken them off. There's rubber feet that we add on to the bottom that the user, once they receives it. To keep it in place a little bit better, and then I'm showing, yeah, the positioning, pulling out and then wrapping. And then packing it into your box.
Cory Connors:Excellent. So no wasted packaging for the shipping of it. Ships in own container SIOC for the, those who are in the industry. That's a big deal and very minimal assembly. It sounds like very exciting. Excellent. When do you, when do we think those will come out in the next month or two?
Marcia Popa:it should be hitting, retailers and whoever's selling it for us in the next month or so. we're just building production right now.
Cory Connors:Wow. I'm excited. I'm excited to see those in person and test them out. I did want to talk a little bit about, the user experience and how does that. come into the design and thought process when creating things like, the 30 foot roll or the thousand foot roll, or now the 175 foot roll.
Tom Corrigan:Yeah, that's that's really the big part about it, right? Because it's the same product. We have the magic material, but it needs something to make it intuitive to the user of how it's going to expand how it's going to pop up. And also, so that they can figure out how to use it once you know how to use it, yeah, you can take almost any format get just the right length. we actually, interestingly enough, the original version when we were prototyping this a couple of years ago was, a box based version, but we went with like smaller and the bigger, and now we're backfilling into the middle. There's a little bit of innovation in getting the resistance just right. So that out of the box, that's the big thing with this box. This one just like. Literally out of the box, it'll deploy nicely. you don't have to, I think we really believe that once someone is like wrapped one or two items with it, they understand how it's supposed to work. And it's amazing. How humans can adapt and figure out how to make the product, how to make the product work. so, that's all part of the, or part of the format or the experience. we've looked at a lot of other things, including, occasionally people talk to us about automating and like, having an automated system. we, I've actually built prototypes of it, which was fun, but you know, as we really query people on what they want, we're not sure they really want a power dispenser that deploys the material for you because ultimately It's you're still, yeah, you're still, the way this is working in the, in this format, you're wrapping it around something to get really the protective, you're creating that nest around it. And the differential, it only, it's, it really is just ounces of force to get it to deploy off of the role. It's not compared to like holding your object and rolling it. it's not a big deal, but what, but some people are looking for other things when they suggest automation. they're really thinking more a void fill and there is that is a niche that we're driving towards with some future things that will we'd love to share maybe on a future podcast to take this and automate the creation of avoid bill product out of the cushion lock so that you can quickly fill some space. So that's another again, we got a lot of different areas that were. We're always
Cory Connors:looking into. That's excellent. And at the booth, you showed what would happen if you made this larger with, single phase corrugated. I thought that was absolutely brilliant idea of yours for demonstration purposes. Can you walk us through that real quick? I did some videos that were super popular about that. Yeah.
Tom Corrigan:Yeah. Shoot. I, sorry. I didn't think to bring that was here, but, If you just, yeah, like I say, if you take the basic, the, the pattern, the kirigami pattern that, that creates, cushion lock and the core of it is something we call the folding wall kirigami pattern. And so it's basically cushion lock, but without the little fingers on the top and the bottom. So it looks more like a square walls. And, we had two different types of demo of that at PACK EXPO , which was fun. One, which was actually done in single face corrugate. with, it was about an inch and a half tall. That sounds right. Yeah. And I literally could stand on it because it's such a strong structure. And then when you take the single slit pattern, which is what other competitors use, when you stand on that, it would crush down. and then I made little handheld, like. Doing that same kind of experiment, little sheets of paper that you could crush by hand and just get that experience of, how much stronger you take the paper and you take the strength, on the flat plane, you rotate it all vertical and create those walls that are standing straight up. that's the magic of this. When you look through it, most of that paper is all vertical. that's the strongest plane. So when you wrap it around your item, you're creating this nest and you have these walls radiating out from the center. You float your object in the center of the box. It's the farthest away from any wall, and it's got the maximum strength in the paper radiating out from the object. So it's really a nice design to
Cory Connors:keep it safe. Incredible. I think the video I did of you, talking about this, a year ago or a year and a half ago has over 8 million views now. And the number one, yeah, the number one, Push back on it is, Hey, I've seen that product for years. What are you talking about? You didn't invent anything. And this is exactly what we're talking about is the differentiator here is the pattern and the fact that a 200 pound person could stand on top of this pattern, but you put the other pattern under that same person and it squishes. so what you've invented is an incredible new design. Thanks.
Tom Corrigan:Thanks. Yeah, we actually have published, I can give you the links to it. We actually have published. In, journal articles on the engineering behind the Folding Wall Kirigani pattern directly compared to the single slit basic pattern. we have a publication in a nature journal art, and also an ASME, American Society of Mechanical Engineering,
Cory Connors:amazing as well. So. I think a lot of people listening to this would be interested in that. So we'll add those into the show notes because there are a lot of very technical people in this industry and that's a good thing. A lot of science based thought here. Marsha, I'd love to know some surprises or any insights you've gotten from working on this product lately. So
Marcia Popa:you touched on a little bit, so it's that kind of that wow factor, but then people do see the differentiation, like virtual, they see it somewhat, but then we still get the, oh, we've seen something we've received something with that. And it's maybe not our product yet, unfortunately, but at least we've seen people to the thought of a paper based cushioning, because the other thing is people are really aware of and no plastic bubble. They know it. They trust it. They've used it. They it's very apparent what it is. so it's that wow factor, but then it's still the connecting the dots, And especially more on the, basic consumer that's going to buy it off from a retail shelf, the small roll. They don't know what it is. Versus a big roll of bubble right next to it on the store shelf. So it's getting that, that knowledge and that learning. so people will, try it, accept it, trust it. we've done testing, but you don't get. The ability to say all that stuff I just said to somebody when they're at the store shelf going to buy it versus plastic bubble. So it's awareness is a huge thing. So that's where we've focused more on the large role because then we can train people how to use it. They'll be using it to ship their items, through e commerce and such. And then people will receive stuff with it and be like, Oh, now I can go to my local. whatever store and pick it up off from the shelf and use that to ship something to my grandkid or, grandma or whatever. so it's that awareness is what's been unnerving and frustrating. but we love that we do shows like this with you. Pack Expo has been great for that, that, that packaging industry, to raise awareness. and we really do get even people that have seen. Or maybe at Pack Expo saw the competitor were like, Oh, this is different. This is really different with that pattern and the interlocking and the creating the standing walls instead of maybe a 45 degree angle. So, yeah, differentiation is once you see it. Through cobit, we haven't had as much live touching feeling ones, but virtual does a part of it, but not the full
Tom Corrigan:story.
Cory Connors:And I wanted to say kudos to you both and to, to Caleb, the three of you are three of the hardest working people at the whole pack expo show. Every time I walked by that you guys were pulling out cushion lock, showing people how it works. I was totally amazed by your effort and, well done there. Yeah,
Marcia Popa:it's a fun time, but it is, draining by the end of it. And I had been to pack expo before, but last year. Right. October of 2022 was the first time any of the rest of my team and I'm like, it's huge. You don't understand. And then they get there and they're like, Oh,
Cory Connors:just a million square feet. Right.
Marcia Popa:And then, I had a bunch of people that knew me. They're like, do you know everyone here for a while. network and I would try and leave the booth and then be like, Oh, somebody else stopped that knew you. So that was fun too, because it's like a big reunion for the packaging folks. So
Cory Connors:I agree it is. And it's a, it's an awesome show. 32, 000 people this year, which is incredible largest show ever for pack expo, in Las Vegas. sure. Chicago will be, another record setter. So make sure you go see the. That's the plan. The booth there. Tom. We didn't have
Marcia Popa:a light switch on because we didn't move enough. We're having time to fall down. I
Cory Connors:love it. Welcome to real, live, yeah.
Marcia Popa:My real demo space.
Cory Connors:So Tom, I've told this story a couple of times to people recently at shows about how you invented this product while laying down in a hammock. That's right. Can you tell us the story? Yeah. And then can you tell us it, would it be possible to ever make an actual hammock out of this product? Yeah.
Tom Corrigan:it's funny that you mentioned that Corey, because that is a fun story. It's true. It really is. It was 4th of July weekend, 2019. And I really was just noodling in my little iPad and laying out ideas. And I figured out how to get the walls to rotate. And I thought, well, that'll be strong. This is going to be great. so that's a true story. and even before Pack Expo a while back, we were talking about, oh, should we bring some hammocks and this will be fun. And then I got the smart idea. I'm like, well, maybe I could make a kirigami based. Hammock, which, is doable. and actually, I haven't made a hammock yet. But just looking that direction where it's a little different than cushion lock is there. And we take the strength of the paper, we make it into those vertical those folding walls so that it has a high compressive strength. For something like a hammock, right, you don't need that it's all you want to keep it all in plane and use my high tensile strength, but some conformability. And so I've actually been, working on that for a little bit. And, that's led to a couple other new opportunities that hopefully we'll tell you about, in a
Cory Connors:new episode as well. You heard it here first, folks. Yeah. That's
Tom Corrigan:right. That's right. But it's never, Goopy ideas are always worth doing,
Marcia Popa:I think subconsciously the hammock because it like spreads out and makes honeycomb shape was maybe something that helped him develop a piece that wasn't any time it just happened to be in the hammock, right?
Cory Connors:I think it's awesome. I think it's the perfect story for this product and it's a hundred percent recycled paper, a hundred percent recyclable. This is, this is the way of the future, I think. So I'd love to know your opinion, Marsha. What do you think is the future of sustainable packaging? Well,
Marcia Popa:I think it is more in these paper based products. So we think and I think we talked about it maybe last time, Tom wrote up, this was invented 20 years ago, like maybe some of our competitors. It wasn't as much of a thing, there wasn't the regulations, the single use plastic, all the, Incentives, I'll say, or regulations, to have people try and be more sustainable. Most companies have some sort of a sustainability goal that they're trying. So we think this really fits with that and gives them a really good solution to be able to meet those, sustainability goals and initiatives and just more awareness with the public, it being curbside recyclable, And honestly, it's probably compostable too, because it's just paper, but we haven't gone that because compostability isn't that big of a thing anymore or me yet. not anymore, but yet is people don't have the. the way to compost really readily, like, they do curbside recycling, but in the future, it could fall into that if it's, with the compostability system increases. Us.
Tom Corrigan:So, yeah, and it's also for cushion lock in general. I think we see as big opportunities in the global marketplace as well because there's, there's demand and in many other regions with the same sort of, or even being ahead of the US in terms of regulations and these things. So, for us, we're certainly we have our eyes on that and trying to expand into some other areas. Yeah.
Marcia Popa:And it's. So besides expanding kirigami and that technology for other things that would help with sustainability, we've got other products that most of our new product introductions that we're considering or pursuing have some sort of sustainability to all of our products throughout 3M have to have, fit some sustainability requirements. and then our existing items are being changed if they have packaging that, is in single use plastics, things like that. They're all being looked at, but we're specifically looking at other products. We already came out with box lock tape, which works better on recycled content boxes. We have paper tape. That is the box lock brand. Also, we have curbside recycle mailers. We're looking at. recycled content more in some of the tapes that we use and recycled content, increasing and maybe in recyclability of our dispensers. most of our tape dispensers are reusable. People don't tend to reuse them. like our little, red dispensers and things like that, but, they are reusable. So we're trying to, encourage that once again, it's awareness. and getting consumers to understand, all the sustainable features that we have and then understanding from consumers what they want to see or what, makes sense to them.
Cory Connors:Yeah. Great point. We have to accommodate what they're looking for. if it, if they're not happy with it, it's not going to sell and it's not going to make an impact, no matter how great of an idea it is. Well said. Well, thank you both. another awesome episode. I can't wait to do the next one when we're talking about even more new items and sustainable items. but what's a good way for us to all get in touch with you both?
Marcia Popa:So us particularly, you can look us up, either of us on LinkedIn. and we can reach out through there or connect through there. to get more information about cushion lock, you can go to scotchbrand. com. If you go to scotch. com, it's a very different, website. So scotchbrand. com and then search for cushion lock. on there and also, you can get to where to buy, but, if you're more of a, packaging user, PacExpo type participant, check with your packaging and or office supplies or other major retailers or distributors, to see. And if they're not carrying cushion lock yet, ask them to. That's how we're selling, the large roll and then the 175 will be going through those distributors. That, we saw a lot of them at pack expo, but getting listed with them so that you can buy it along with whatever else you're buying for your packaging needs. not the custom stuff, like, your direct print box from a major core data supplier, but all those other kinds of stock items.
Cory Connors:Excellent. Well, thank you again. Another, another great show. I appreciate you both. Thank
Tom Corrigan:you. Thanks Corey. Always fun talking. Bye.
