Sustainable Packaging

underwater hockey and packaging / Casey Nakamura (Johnson & Johnson Vision)

• Cory Connors • Season 3 • Episode 229

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Meet the amazing Casey Nakamura
He is a packaging engineer for Johnson & Johnson and plays underwater hockey!

https://www.jjvision.com/


https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/packaging-today-show/id1656906367

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Welcome

Cory Connors:

to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guest is my friend, Mr. Casey Nakamura , who works at Johnson and Johnson Vision as a senior package engineer.

Casey Nakamura:

How are you, Casey? I'm doing well, Corey. How are you? Good,

Cory Connors:

man. You're live from an event. Let's talk about that.

Casey Nakamura:

Where were you at? Yes, I am in Austin, Texas. At. The Packout.

Cory Connors:

That's excellent. I've heard really good things about that show. we'll mention that a little bit later. But first, let's go back to your background. what got you into sustainable packaging?

Casey Nakamura:

Well, really it was packaging. I am a cow, poly mustang packaging. Rad. Right on. and I've gotta represent, yeah. And I've been in the packaging industry straight and straight outta school, so over, over 10 years now. Wow. And, I've been in CPG goods doing, I was in corrugate folding carton for a number of years on the supplier side, and then I kind of moved into, I made the jump over to manufacturing in, now in, in the last five plus years, been in the med MedTech medical device industry, doing the packaging and labeling.

Cory Connors:

And that's a very difficult, area of the world of packaging to be sustainable in, to be Yes, very honest. I've had, struggles with that because they, the requirements are for oftentimes virgin material. oftentimes very thick plastics, very heavy weight plastics. can you speak, speak to that a little bit with the challenges related to that?

Casey Nakamura:

Yeah, it, you know, we work with a lot of sterile barrier systems and we talk about traceability of where all our components come from. Those are requirements stemming from ISO 11, 6 0 7, and other ones as well. So there's a lot of challenges in being sustainable and trying to source sustainable. you know, resources to use in your packaging. you know, then there's a lot of work in trying to open up those avenues. and, you know, but we focus on, you know, where can we get F s E board, where do we, where can we control, that within our supply chain and document it and show traceability. so it's the, I think from a medical device industry perspective. There are other ways that we can focus on our sustainability, not necessarily just from the, materials of construction standpoint, where we can leverage, but of course that's a big, that's a big part of it. And really once we can incorporate that, then it's gonna allow for the industry to accept more, you know, recycled content. Right. there's a lot, there's a lot of discussion here at this event right now. that is about advanced recycling. And breaking p you know, breaking down plastics to their base level and then being able to rebuild them, incorporate that into, with your virgin to, in a mask balance. your product and your packaging. So that's a, there's a lot of innovation happening. yeah. That's gonna, it's gonna come to the medical device industry. That's fascinating.

Cory Connors:

I've heard a lot of mixed feelings about advanced recycling or some people call it chemical recycling. Yeah. I'd love to know your thoughts if you're comfortable sharing, what you think of it as a sustainable option.

Casey Nakamura:

Well, I think it's, One thing, it has the potential to really divert, you know, waste stream as well as, you know, prevent, you know, we don't have to go get it. We don't have to pull more fossil fuels, so, right. It is, I think the industry itself needs to scale up to accommodate that as well as the, the ability to capture. the waste that's being out there to repurpose accordingly, or I think it's still is just so new. A lot of the technologies are newer, and you know, trying to compliment existing like mechanical recycling efforts. So there's just needs to be more development and, it's a, it's been a process, but I think it definitely, it has its place and it's building out its niche where, it will. Allow us to utilize more of what's already been used, in the industry. So, okay. it's a step in the right direction. but it's not the end all. You know, it's, I don't know if there is anything that's truly gonna be the main sustainability. Like, this is it, this is the end goal. You know, it's gonna be the unicorn coordination. Yeah. The unicorn doesn't exist, especially not with medical device packaging. I wish it does, but, you know, I got faith maybe one day. Technology can advance to that point. So.

Cory Connors:

I hope so too, and I'm amazed what's happened just in the last three years and the last two years even doing this show, I've learned so much about the efforts being made in the world of sustainable packaging. I. But, I, when I think of, vision packaging, yeah, I think of contacts. my wife, wears contacts and she gets these individually packaged, sets of contacts that she has to replace. And, is that the main focus of your division? Contacts.

Casey Nakamura:

Contacts? so. Vision j Vision is a variety of different brands, and products. contact lenses is the largest part of that. and I, and we have, engineers that focus specifically on those products. the other half of the business in j Vision is, for cataract surgery. Oh wow. so, and that is involves, implantable devices called intraoccular lenses. there are a few other, product lines within that umbrella that include, refractive laser surgery, so like a LASIK type procedures, for vision correction, as well as treatments for glaucoma and dry eye as well.

Cory Connors:

Fascinating. So you, your company would provide the packaged materials for the doctors and nurses that would, perform the surgical procedures? Yes. Yeah. Incredible. You thought of that as something that needs to be done. That's amazing. now you worked for a big company, right? So you I do. you have the opportunity to work with some of the. Cutting edge technologies in the world of packaging. do you feel like those resources have allowed you and your team to, to make some innovations in the sustainability?

Casey Nakamura:

Yes. I'd say mostly, There is a j and j is such a large organization, and we have, we're one, you know, one operating company amongst, plethora all in different segments of medical device and even, pharmaceutical, right? and j has had, has their consumer business, and that's becoming Ken view. And, so being such a large, organization does enable, communication and knowledge sharing. there. There's been more efforts. I think a lot of the challenges during covid and things like that, impacted the ability to connect, I think impacted everybody. yeah. But now what we've done, and then, and a little bit, taken a one step back is I, my organization was acquired in 2018. so it took a couple years in order to really be brought into the larger j and j. medical device, family. Okay. And so build, we had to bri, bridge the gaps and make the connections. But really, you know, and then wait, so couple years and then covid kind of right. unfortunately hampered those, that, those opportunities. but now, so I'm working more across functionally with other engineers in other, other operating companies within j and j where we're able to share methods, you know, look at innovations. there's a working on, from a larger perspective, we've developed a sustainability. Team, you know, where we can kind of harmonize about what we're doing in our specific companies, right? So, so we can at least get more aligned and understand, oh, what are you doing in, in this organization? And then, oh, how can I apply that to mine? And where can we, find value and promote sustainability within our projects?

Cory Connors:

And I'm sure like most companies, and I apologize for not looking it up specifically, but most companies have, sustainability goals that they're trying to attain. And has your corporate team, reached out to you to kind of see what you are doing to help that goal?

Casey Nakamura:

Yeah, there are a number of different, goals that have been established. but they, we, what we're working right now is, and is generating what are the realistic expectations of those, right? And the quant. How do you quantify that? you know, how do you, how can you commun really quantify and then ultimately communicate? You know, what are the, what are the goals? How can we hit them? What's the plan for doing that? Yeah. and, you know, ultimately like the overall benefits. One, one example is, I'm on the team that's trying to leverage E I F U. So I, one of my responsibilities is running our E I F U program. And with that we're going through product by product line and identifying where we can remove the, the paper instructions to use and provided electronically. so we've identified, we have product specific for a certain country. Where it's eligible and we can go through, oh, well, as long as we have our testing or validation in place and justify that the package is, would be fine without a paper, then we can justify to our health authority that. We don't need it, and we now have a digital option to present that to the customer. So, that's amazing.

Cory Connors:

what does E I F U stand for? Just for our knowledge here? Yeah.

Casey Nakamura:

E I F U. It, by definition, is an, is electronic instructions for use and it's provide and you can provide the instructions used electronically. And for the most part, that's done via a website. And so within j and j we have a specific platform that is open to our customers so they can go online and access the instructions for their device.

Cory Connors:

So maybe a QR code or a U P C or like you said, just a printed website for people to research.

Casey Nakamura:

Yeah, the use of QR codes in med device is still, we have a, it's not been popularized or used as, as much. I think there's more opportunity to use it right now. the guidance on this, the symbol and the usability is just indicates you need to have your consult instructions for your symbol with a U R L. and that, that provides indicates to your customers. In this case, the majority of our customers from the surgical side are healthcare professionals. they'll understand that's symbol and that URLs where I can access and find my, my instructions.

Cory Connors:

It's exciting. I, I spend a lot of time at Waste Expo with a friend of mine, Mikey Prosciutto that, founded a company called Scrap. Okay. And what they do is they work with hospitals and with, regular people, to help sort packaging so that it actually gets recycled in the right way with the right material. So I'm wondering if. That can help, j and J, maybe at the hospital level.

Casey Nakamura:

So yeah, things to consider there. Definitely. I know, and there's probably, there's some other, I think there's the, I know it's H P R C, healthcare packaging, I think recycling, council or there's an org. That organization as well As and others and other, Whether they're MDMs or they're more, suppliers For that are really looking at how to set up how hospitals can set up recycling for all these, literally all this packaging that they end up going through. so there's a definite opportunity there that, and that's gonna lead into, you know, diverting it to the appropriate, recycling stream. So,

Cory Connors:

like you said, huge potential there. And, it's been a real challenge for many years because it's essentially been treated as a toxic waste and, hazardous materials and, you know, which, which makes sense cuz we're dealing with blood and. different medical, you know, materials that are right, not safe for everyone to, to be touching, but I'd love to know some of your thoughts on maybe some current trends in packaging that you think are in particular sustainable packaging, of course, that are exciting to you.

Casey Nakamura:

Well, I think I already mentioned right? Being able to remove anytime you can remove paper. Yeah. and simplify your product configuration, you know? you know, that's just been the, really enabling factor of, like, I have, you know, I have the ability and we have the system in place to enable that. So, lightweighting. I've worked on a project where actually consolidated, we had a, we have a labeling project where we had six different labels able to go down. I was able to redesign, go down to one label. Great for all these products. So really trying to, any project that simplifies the supply chain, you know, we know how challenging things can be, given the last couple years. Yeah. and building, being able to build in, resiliency are all these trends we need to constantly be aware of and really looking for those opportunities. you have to find them. It's not always gonna pre, it's not gonna present itself. very true. So you definitely need to. Constantly be looking at, you know, and reevaluating where in your supply chain or your value, you can add value. Right.

Cory Connors:

I'd love to know your thoughts on, reusable packaging. Do you see a future there for sustainability?

Casey Nakamura:

I do see a future there. unfortunately it's in the sterile packaging world. Yeah. it's not the challenge much of a future. Right now. We do have some closed loop systems that we use, that, well, for example here, the one that we use is, we have product that gets fully packaged and then put into a reusable. Totes in essence, or they're aren't really stainless steel baskets. And then that product is sent for sterilization, great. And then it gets sent back, and then it gets, and then it gets packed, you know, put in a carton and packed out per the unit load. So, you know, in a closed loop in there are certain closed loop systems where US Packaging definitely has, its, has its place and value. Unfortunately when you're getting into that more, you know, full distribution model and you got products shipping out the door, sending everything back Doesn't always, isn't not really set up yet. or, right. And, you know, there are a lot of our products that they will get, you know, palletized and then ship to a distribution center. Right. I don't see the DC sending back corrugate to be used, unfortunately. Especially it's shit across the world. Yeah. you know, or even our, our capital equipment. You know, I don't think I've ever heard of a customer shipping back a crate that we can reuse. Yeah. it has to

Cory Connors:

make sense. Right. It has to be appropriate. Yeah. Well, for the people watching on YouTube, they've been probably totally confused by your background. But, and for those listening, Casey's background is a swimming pool and, it's a really cool underwater picture. but you've gotta explain to us why you chose that background and tell us. What is underwater hockey?

Casey Nakamura:

What is underwater hockey? Right, well, underwater hockey is a sport played on the bottom of a swimming pool, so, I have spent a lot of my life being underwater. so definitely felt this picture was appropriate, to showcase and, more specifically, been underwater a lot as I am been training. to play this sport at the highest level, I am, competing for team u s a Congratulations and World Championships. this summer. Amazing. So, yeah. but underwater hockey, it's played at the bottom of the pool. You have a lead weighted puck that's coated in plastic and it weighs about three pounds. And the players. They wear a dive mask, they have a snorkel so they could breathe and watch the play. And they have flippers on and use a short stick and they hold their breath and they dive down to the bottom of the pool. And then they push the puck along the pool bottom, trying to put the puck in the goal. So you're defending yours on your side of the pool. And then, on the other side is the one who're trying to scoring it. It's amazing. Yeah. Is there's nothing, no other sport like it, no other sport where you actively are holding your breath while playing. Yeah. let alone fully submerged underwater. Yeah.

Cory Connors:

Yeah, that, that's a great point. Even with water polo, you're above the water at least, and yes, you have to swim, which is incredibly challenging, but to do it fully underwater is amazing. And congratulations for being chosen to the u s A team, u s a and, for representing us. We appreciate it.

Casey Nakamura:

Yeah, no, no worries. So, yeah, that's what, keeps me in shape, ke you know, it, it helps keep me focused. I, I. You dive under the water. I'm not thinking about packaging. right. I can get a little escape and I can focus on, playing with my teammates. And, and of course scoring, scoring goals. So,

Cory Connors:

yeah. Are you, what's your position? Are you a forward or a mid or a is that, how

Casey Nakamura:

do they do it? Yeah. I am a forward. So, at the high elite, elite level, I am a forward, attacker. Yeah. Where we do have, we have kind of a tier, we have a formation. And it's six on six in the water. Okay. but then you also have four subs. So it's ultimately teams are 10 on 10. but you have, we have a forwards, we have a midline. And then typically a we'll call stopper. In essence a goalie, but they don't need to stay in, in the goal. no one, you know, the puck, it moves fast cuz someone's swimming and pushing it real fast. Right? Right. But then, you have, you know, a cycle of players, coming up and down to get, you know, they're getting air, they're coming back down, being positioned to steal the puck or receive the pass so you can keep swimming with it and then pass it off to a teammate. Incredible. So, so it's a, a. Encourage someone, to go on YouTube and check it out. I was just gonna ask

Cory Connors:

what's the best way for people though, to watch and to see you do this?

Casey Nakamura:

Yeah. so there's a number of YouTube channels, specifically there's one called, Alanis Sports. And you can, if you search underwater hockey and YouTube, you're gonna find all sorts of videos from all over the world, and it is a full international sport And, started in the UK in the 1950s and then spread all over the world, really. amazing. Yeah. YouTube is your best spot, specifically in a month from now, in, the, so the, June nine, 10 weekend I believe Is the US Nationals, championship. And that will be fully streamed to YouTube as well as ultimately in July when the World Champions Championships will be happening, it'll be streamed to YouTube.

Cory Connors:

What part of the world will you, will that be competed

Casey Nakamura:

in? It's in Gold Coast Australia. Oh, wow. Yeah,

Cory Connors:

for, I mean, for

Casey Nakamura:

the US one. Oh, the US Tournament is actually happening in, Minnesota. Oh, okay. Yeah. St. Paul or, I guess it's University of Minnesota as the hosting, as the club that plays there. They play at that college pool. So that's where they're hosting the tournament. Well, at least it's not

Cory Connors:

the winner. That's good.

Casey Nakamura:

Yeah. Winter time. I try and invite those players to come to Southern California and play in my outdoor pool. So

Cory Connors:

that's, I bet that's an enticing, idea for them

Casey Nakamura:

for sure. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. They get some SoCal sunshine. yeah, they have, they, number of 'em take advantage every year, so.

Cory Connors:

Right. Well, this has been awesome, Casey. Thank you for, your wisdom. enjoy the rest of your time at the PACKOUT event there in Austin, Texas. And, any last things you wanted to mention

Casey Nakamura:

before we close out? no, I definitely, Corey, thank you for, having me on the show, you know, and I think it's, Just, we always need to continue to keep thinking how can we continue to be sustainable and reevaluating, that perspective and refreshing it. And when you get new information, new ideas, re reapplying, it's, yeah, it's really, I think it's developing a way of being able to think about it in, in com consistently, and to constantly being able to reapply. You know, we gotta be circular in that, in order to continue moving forward. So very true. Very

Cory Connors:

well said. things are changing constantly and we need to be able to adapt. Well said. Well, thanks Casey, and I'd like to thank, Orora and North America Packaging for sponsoring this show. Really appreciate that. If you're listening, make sure you subscribe so you don't miss the next episode, and stay tuned for more. Thank you.

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