Guacamole Airplane Founder Ian Montgomery Part 2

https://guacamoleairplane.com/

Do you know about the Guacamole Airplane Supplier Guide? 
It's full of sustainable alternatives for packaging! 

I truly enjoy speaking with Ian Montgomery and discussing all of the amazing materials that are coming out to help companies be more sustainable. 

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Transcript

Cory Connors: 0:31

Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guest is a return guest, which is very exciting to me. I, I haven't been able to say that very often. Mr. Ian Montgomery, the founder of Guacamole Airplane.

Ian Montgomery: 0:44

How are you, Ian? I'm great, Corey. Thanks so much for having me. How are you

Cory Connors: 0:47

doing? Really good to have you again, and I'm just a big fan of your company and what you do personally. So let's talk about it, man. Let's, let's get back into it. Can you give us a refresher on your background and what guacamole, airplane's, all about?

Ian Montgomery: 1:01

Absolutely. So guacamole Airplane is a design agency focused on sustainable packaging. We're not a full service design studio that does branding and web. We're sort of initially focused on structural packaging, design forms, guidelines, CADs, molded cartons, whatever that may be, and sustainability considerations that go into that. So that comes up in our prog process in terms of, you know, material selection. Supply chain set up will do lifecycle assessments. When we're able to compare, you know, a company's existing packaging to a proposed redesign and that sort of thing. LCAs have their issues that are really tough when we get into some of the material innovation that might be coming out there with seaweeds or p HHAs or much phones have good data sets of those that economies have scaled yet, but their LCAs are great for you know, Paper to plastic calculations and that sort of thing often surprise us. We often find that plastic. Generally has much lower carbon footprint than, than many of these plastic options. And that's certainly something to reckon with as we, as we set our priorities, are we really trying to design something that's low carbon or plastic free? And, you know, we never wanna fully switch out. A plastic system with paper if it's gonna lead to a radically higher carbon footprint. So, you know, try to, try to minimize carbon in, in, in everything we're designing for. And we were just having some conversations offline about a few, a few options that, you know, or paper really does do that with some of their space saving efficiencies and that sort of thing. So those are the, the materials we get excited about.

Cory Connors: 2:31

I agree a hundred percent. It's, it's an exciting time, but we need to be cautious. We need to not make knee jerk reactions and not jump too fast., if plastic can be more sustainable, then we should stay with it and, and work to make sure it gets reused or recycled. But absolutely important. You know, I was listening to our, our episode we recorded last time, and I never asked you. The question that I think everyone wants to know is, where did you get the name? Guacamole, airplane., Ian Montgomery: Yeah, no, it. It comes from an old Ed Ruscha painting, a guacamole. Airlines was the painting, but it's sort of abstract and, and like the image of something organic, something like guacamole, creating something functional, modern and sleek like an airplane felt. That was a good metaphor for the work we're trying to do, where we're trying to take new materials. So things, things that might be, you know, bio-based or low-carbon or compostable, whatever they may be. Mm-hmm. and really sort of work with those materials to create . Functional packaging, functional objects, and we're living in this. That's cool. Amazing time of material innovation where so many, there's so much investment in material innovation and, and new materials are, are coming online, monthly and it's just such an exciting time to be a designer and packaging. It almost feels like that era in the fifties and sixties, a post-war era where all those designers were getting to work with new. That kind of post World War fiberglass, whatever they may be, and those who are informing furniture and home goods, and it, it feels like a similar. Revolutionist is taking place and name kind of feeds into that name is also a good litmus test for clients if they're open to working with studio. Such a weird name. They're generally, challenging design, please. Great. They're open to unique, a adventures and I think that's why you and I get along so well. This is exactly. What we're trying to do here is, is change the world for the better and try new things and you know, we're gonna fail and we're gonna learn and we're going to totally exhaust certain new materials until they just don't, they just can't work. And that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. But excited to see what happens the way.

Ian Montgomery: 4:48

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Cory Connors: 4:50

Let's talk about why is sustainability so critical to our future? I, I've get gotten asked that several times and I, I'd love to hear from your, your point of view.

Ian Montgomery: 5:01

I think if our children or grandchildren are having this conversation in 50 years, they're gonna be radically affected by a changing climate and ensuing changing weather patterns. And that's kind of based on carbon and methane and, and that really has to be a priority of anyone. Designing pretty much anything in, in the modern age is, is thinking about their little sort of niche of work, what they can do to decarbonize that place. You know, and, and in our work, we, we think the plastic issue is, is concerning too in, in terms of toxicity and just terms of, you know, the ethics of of, of where it ends up in the ocean and waterways. We think that carbon is, is a bigger concern and, and, you know, face between the two, we, we try to focus on carbon. But you know, I, I think we live in an age where the definition of, of a good product or a good design has to include sustainability. That has to be up there with, you know, making sure it has a long life, it functions well, it could be manufactured well and that sort of thing. It's, it's really, sustainability has really made its way. Every facet of design and, and every facet of modern life.

Cory Connors: 6:11

Yes, absolutely. That's it. Well said, man. Wow. Really? Right on. And , , is there a project recently that you can tell us about that maybe started with something less sustainable and you and your team were able to get it into a more sustainable solution? That is pretty

Ian Montgomery: 6:30

exciting. Yeah, absolutely. Hog. Gosh, there's so many. One we can talk about is working with a furniture company called Laun , l a u n, in Los Angeles. And they were previously packaging. They make beautiful furniture and they also do architecture and interiors. It's a great line of furniture that's kind of low volume and produced locally in Los Angeles and it's always a challenge and I imagine you feel it too with sort of low volume applications where you can't really go to a lot of these suppliers and just get. Hundred units at a time or something like this., they need a couple commas in their minimum order before they'll talk to you. You right, it's a challenging one. You're like, okay, what can we do? It can effectively package this furniture. It's gotta have, it can't be scuffed, so you need some sort of wrap and it can't be dented, so you need some sort of cushioning and dun and people are paying. Good amount for this furniture. So you want you know, a nice unboxing experience and that sort of thing. And we worked as a supplier we'd never worked with before. They're based in South Africa. They're called Xanita , X A N I T A, and they make this really cool basically like a sandwiched layer of B flute that all come together sort of much stronger than a traditional like hex or honeycomb board. and it allowed us to sort of take the language of a wooden crate and recreate that with the Xanita board and just have simple inserts inside and. It was so cool cuz you're basically looking at a cardboard box, but it's something you can, in our, you know, prototype reviews with them, we're jumping on it and standing on it. That's great. And the challenge with that is just setting up the supply chain for it because you, again, you can't go to a traditional corrugate manufacturer, so we ended up using just sign shops that were equipped locally with, with printing and Oh wow. Tab software and, and plotters and dye cutters to be able to cut it all out. So that, that was a fun one. And another fun one that we can talk about too is about probably since we last spoke, for whatever reason, our, our, it might be our supplier guide that we can speak to in a minute, but our work has. We've got a third or a half of our projects aren't always working just with consumer brands, but they're working with forward-looking packaging manufacturers who would like to bring an outside perspective on design into their product development. Wow. And recently worked with Sway, which is a really great seaweed based biomaterials company here in the Bay Area. Yeah. Their, their films are just wonderful. They're these, you know, based on seaweed films, and they can actually add, you know, speckles of farmed kelp into them for a bit of texture, and however much kelp the client is open to it. You can add enough that it actually starts smelling like the sea, which certain clients. Cory Connors: I, I Their ceo, e o, she's amazing. Oh, Julie's great. Yeah, so it was just by the studio last month and we did b. Open prototyping sessions where she's like, we've got these films and we could really use help giving them form and life and function. And yeah, we were able to just prototype all sorts of really cool structural concepts with the seaweed from like, What you'd imagine a pasta box with a dye cut window of plastic, replacing that window with seaweed to bags, with seaweed handles and cinch closures, and even designing tear strips into the seaweed so it could zip open and that, that sort of so, so fun and, and so exciting to see how these materials can, I dunno, listen to the, see what they wanna do and, and see. See what they'll end up looking like as they make their way out into the.

Cory Connors: 9:59

Like you said before, it's a, it's an exciting time and it's kind of an honor and a privilege to get to, to work with these materials as some of the first innovators in, in the world of packaging. Really. Your

Ian Montgomery: 10:12

TikTok is a sort of a great window into the world. Thank you. I feel like every time I see it I'm like, oh, that's cool. That's cool. And it's anyone I recommend. Cory's TikTok @Corygated, Cory Connors: thank you so much. I. I often get people sending me samples of new ideas and concepts, and I'm honored to be part of that tip of the spear, if you will, and saying, Hey, there's new ideas here. There's new things we can do that will be better. And I think that leads us right into your world famous supplier guide., can you speak to that a little bit and tell us what's going on? Absolutely. Probably a, a similar impetus to the, the TikTok account you created. We wanted we were getting a ton of inquiries, you know, years ago, four or five years ago when we set up the business of people just, they didn't necessarily need a full design consult, but they were just asking for advice about it. What material can I use here? Is, is there a sort simple thing there? We realized there was a real Need for, for knowledge and and perspective in that space. And at the time we were keeping an internal database of all the packaging suppliers that we could use for projects. And across everything from poly bags and films to cushioning to different corrugated suppliers and that sort of thing. And. We published a free open source guide online, broken down by packaging function that's got, I think it's up to like 150 or even more packaging suppliers on there that are just best in class. And goes through the sustainability considerations of each as nice photography, if there's any relevant certifications and. Yeah. It's just really been this wonderful thing that's had an impact beyond our, our kind of traditional studio work that we get emails from people, oh, this helped me, you know, find some packaging for almonds or a healthcare device, whatever it is. And it's been great to share. And, you know, similarly to what you were just saying, it's, it's also served as a bit of a, a light post or a beacon. Now organizations are sort of sending us samples of materials they have in development and hoping it can get on the guide. And yeah, it's just become a nice, a nice thing online and, and super excited to have Orora , your company featured on there with yeah. Some of the just great offerings just starting with the, you know, the a hundred percent recycled corrugated boxes, the Enviro Craft, the Scotch cushion lock , and some of the really interesting work with using p e t bottles to create fabrics that can be digitally printed and a hundred percent recycled bottles. So, yeah, that's great stuff on there. And, and it's so excited to, to get Orora on there.

Cory Connors: 12:44

I was thrilled when You and, and Justine and Chris Bradley , and we all connected about these new innovations that we have coming out and have in process now. Because it's, it's fun to share the good things that we're doing. We are one of the leaders in the world of sustainable packaging, and I, like you said, like it's an honor. You know, it's like we just want to be a part of the solution. We talked about this scotch cushion lock material. One truckload of this material is equal to 10 truckloads of standard plastic bubble., if nothing else, think of nine fewer truckloads on the road . That like times, times how many, , and, , save your space in the warehouse. And it's made from a hundred percent recycled paper to begin with. So you're not harvesting trees to make this. It's, it's exciting. It

Ian Montgomery: 13:38

really is. And then you think about the carbon carbon implications of how small those little units are. And yeah, they really add up to move towards solutions that, you know, paper might have a little bit more of a carbon footprint than plastic, but if you have those carbon savings in shipping, okay, suddenly you have something that that really is better in terms of carbon. In terms of recyclability and in terms of materials and sourcing and toxicity, and those are, those are just such great solutions. That's so, so cool that that's being pushed out publicly through Landsberg Orora . Yeah.

Cory Connors: 14:10

Yeah. I'm, I'm really excited about, I've been working on this for this one for a long time, , and it, you know, it feels, it feels good to get it actually out into the hands of, of customers and, and people that are gonna to present it to their clients you know, wrapped around the, the items that they've so carefully created. So it's fun to be a part of the solution, what else do you wanna talk about? Anything else that I, I didn't ask about or anything that you wanted to mention? Oh

Ian Montgomery: 14:38

gosh, good question, . If anyone wants to get in touch with us, we got tons of exciting stuff going on and, and looking forward to the year ahead. We really like to. Sort of work with organizations as an addition to their, you know, in-house structural packaging team, or if they don't have an in-house packaging team serve as their in-house structural packaging team. We're super collaborative. Set up our process. So we've kind of work with the in-house graphic designers at any organization, even with these kind of new wild materials providing mox and CADs and create a collaborative process. So, I guess the other call is any, any manufacturers out there. We've really enjoyed this shift in our business the last year where we're partnering with manufacturers, working on new materials, new packaging, new methods, and very open to those types of collaborations as well.

Cory Connors: 15:26

It sounds like you've, you've become one of the leaders in testing and trying out new materials to see if they'll actually work in new.

Ian Montgomery: 15:35

Absolutely. There's so much out there. Like you've, there's hundreds if not thousands of, of innovative polymers and materials. But what you're saying is like we find in our projects, an example would be a, a men's grooming company we're working with now if a really. Kind of evolved and mature supply chain. So there's, of those hundreds or thousands of materials, there's really only a few that can serve as drop-in solutions to what they're looking for and Right. And as we like approach, scale with, with what we're designing on, we really need we need to have that eye for, for what materials. Not require an entire investment in infrastructure and, and retooling. And that's all to say, you know, totally wacky, new materials don't have their place. They, you know, we find that some of the newer materials that might not function through. Plastic extrusion line or blown film or anything like that can still be cool for l t o limited time off, short run concepts and that sort of thing. Yeah. And that's a step pushing them towards larger scale. But yeah, I know it's that, that I'm sure you've, you find it too. It's when you get down to brass , tacks and actually have to produce things at scale, there's., the list of, of material innovation sort of sorts itself out in the right answer. Present, present.. Cory Connors: Very true. Well said. It's an important concept to think about. Yes, this material may work, but we need to make sure that it can be manufactured at a, at a large enough volume to accommodate somebody. Who's in interested in it? I know , I just met with Unilever Prestige Brands over in Paris when I was there at Paris Packaging Week. And that's one of the issues they have is, well, this material's great, but we need. A hundred million of them, they're not ready for that yet. So we're working with them to scale up. And that's, these are good. That's a good issue I think because they've, they've found a solution that works. They just need to figure out how to make it make enough of them. So that's, that's kind of an exciting part of this process. Oh my gosh, absolutely. Well, thank you, sir. It's been a honor to see you again and talk to you again. I always enjoy our talks. Will you any chance you're going to west Westpac here coming up soon? No, I, I'm afraid I'll miss that one, but we'll, we'll cross

Cory Connors: 17:52

paths soon. All right. Sounds good. Thank you Landsberg Orora for sponsoring this. If you're listening, make sure you subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. And thanks again, Ian. Really appreciate it.

Ian Montgomery: 18:02

Thank you, Corey.