Industrially Compostable Packaging / CEO Amir Gross / Treetop Biopack

https://www.treetopbiopak.co.uk/

What is the future of compostable packaging? 
Will there be more ways to have your packaging composted? 
How long does it take to compost packaging? 

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Transcript

Cory Connors: 0:31

Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guest is Mr. Amir Gross, the c e o and founder of Treetop Bio Pack. How are you, sir? I'm all

Amir Gross: 0:42

right. Thank

Cory Connors: 0:42

you and good evening to everyone. Good evening. Yeah, that's right. You're across the, the pond in London, and I'm over here in Oregon and it's so interesting and such a, such a small world isn. It

Amir Gross: 0:54

is. Yeah. Yeah. talking to people all over the world, so you always need to get your time

Cory Connors: 0:59

right as well, . That's right. Well, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? What, what's your background? How'd you get into this?

Amir Gross: 1:07

Alright. Yeah. I've started it , in, I think in packaging about 15 years ago, I think. And was working for a number of factories in rigid plastic area. Markets and work working for in food, non-food markets. And yeah. About five years ago I was, I was looking for something more sustainable to do. I was interested in sustainability and, and ethical business, and I started working for. Compostable Packaging company, developed a new compostable packaging and got interested in, in that and became very passionate about compostable packaging. And yeah, then about two and a half years ago decided to start on my own. There was so many new innovations in the market above and beyond what I was doing, and I thought that there's kind of a gap. Innovation and the market and all these new things that were coming to the market. And it was, I thought it was a good opportunity to to bring those to the market for the benefit

Cory Connors: 2:00

of everyone. Well, I'm glad you did. This is an exciting time in the world of packaging, and you're right. Things are changing daily, sometimes hourly, with innovations. I'm. Almost not surprised anymore when I see something brand new that shocks me . Wow. That's really like, that's possible. Whoa, I didn't expect that. Yeah. So can you tell us what, what treetop BioPack is all about?

Amir Gross: 2:26

Well treetop focuses on compostable packaging. And the idea is to to bring the, the widest range of compostable flexible packaging to the market to implement, to help implement that technology yeah, for, for the benefit of the future and for, for a cleaner world. And that's what we're trying to do. We just, we're bringing lots of innovations in that field and, and solutions that would help you know, the most common. Plastic packaging materials today that are out there. And we have lots of solution that, you know, materials that are being used in very high volumes and companies are scratching their head how to replace. And there are already in the market solution that we have for those for those

Cory Connors: 3:05

material. Well, that's good news, right? And it's important to, to understand how the process is, is intended to work. And Really where compostable packaging fits into the, the world of sustainability. Cuz I think, and I think most people believe that it's not, there's not one solution. It's not going to all be solved. Okay. We're gonna recycle more and that's it. And everything's wonderful. No, I think we all need to understand that there's going to. Lots of innovations, like you said originally, and we're all going to need to a adapt to these new solutions. But what I'd really like to hear about is your thoughts on, on Compostability. For example, if somebody doesn't have a garden or as we call it, an America backyard what do you do with compostable home compostable?

Amir Gross: 4:00

Right. Well, the fact is that if, if we are going to use these materials in, in very high volumes as we are hoping to see in the future home composting will not be the The main or, or main avenue for disposing of these materials, right? Just like we don't expect people to re to recycle paper at home, they're not going to recycle organic waste or, or, or compostable packaging at home. And I think that the term home composting is a bit confusing and people think. It's home compostable. It must be disposed of at home, and there must be compost where that's not the case. Compostable materials will need to be disposed of., we will need to develop infrastructure and, and some countries already have it the infrastructure to to dispose of it and need to remember that Composting is a natural process. It doesn't really require human involvement. It happens in the, it happens in the middle of the Amazon where no man has ever gone true. These materials the composting process is natural and they. And we are only going, we are only assisting it to to happen. And what ha needs to happen to these materials that need to be collected and taken to composting facilities. The composting facilities are already there. We are already composting organic waste from home. We're composting garden waste. So the facilities are there the materials, the compostable materials are available and we just need to connect the dots with with collection and separation of these materials.

Cory Connors: 5:27

Yes. Lots of infrastructure in the, in the makings as we speak, I'm sure that's right. With extended producer responsibility and different you know, changes at the, at the county level in states, here in the U S A. It's, it's going to change constantly. It's going to change quickly. I wanted to ask some particulars about your packaging. When you get to a industrial compost facility, how long does something that you guys provide? How long does it take to break down? Generally

Amir Gross: 5:59

material that's industrially. Compostable, yeah. Needs to break within six months in, the industrial composter. And I think it's, it's important for people to understand the composting. It's not industrial composting as well. It's not a very high technology . As I said, it's a natural process. If you have a pile of organic waste at the end of the garden, that's a compost, right? If you'll take that compost and put it in your living room, it'll be an industrial compostor compostor. You, you take the compost and you put it in a closed. So the heat that the compost generates is maintained and increases over time. And, and that's the whole difference. Obviously there's multi, a bit more technology to it, but , the basic way to that it happens is that they take, that you take. A pile of compost and you put it in a, in a closed chamber, closed, closed environment and let it, and let it do it thing and, and compost and a bit of maybe mixing it to, to let more air into it. But that is industrial composting. It's not a very complex process.

Cory Connors: 7:01

I agreed. I've seen some of the, the videos and some of the processes of, of how it works. And you're right, it's, it's pretty basic. We're, we're turning soil over and, and heating it up a lot because of the natural process. There's no electricity required for that. Other than maybe an electric Shovel or something. but it's, it's an interesting process. I'm, I'm fascinated by it. I do like the idea very much of compostable packaging for takeout food. Because oftentimes food takeout, food containers don't get cleaned very well. So the fact that you can compost your. Packaging along with the food scraps just makes sense to me. Would you agree? Yeah, yeah.

Amir Gross: 7:46

Absolutely agree that it makes sense for, for home for, for for food products the. The food the food contamination in packaging is an interference in recycling materials, but it actually, it's beneficial for composting cause you've got all this bacteria in the, in the pack that accelerates the the composting process. And it's beneficial for, for process. For the process. So for food, it's a, it's a very good solution. But also for non-food materials. Yeah, for non-food applic.

Cory Connors: 8:15

I agree, and it's exciting to see do you see more industrial composting facilities opening? Is there a, a trend in that direction? The, the,

Amir Gross: 8:27

it's kind of a patchy picture depends where you are. And in the UK we, we already have quite a few of them. And in Europe as well. It's a, it's a developing industry. Mm-hmm. And, you know, and it's hard to be an expert in every country, what happens in every country in, in that terms you wouldn't know totally what's happening in the us and in us, just the us, the usa I mean, we know that California is more advanced than than other places. And there's more legislation and the regulations about plastic very advanced than other places in the, in the us. So, but as I. Composting is already happening. People are, we, we've been composting for, for years. It's just a matter of taking into account this new technology that has developed mm-hmm. and that we can use our existing facilities to, for packaging as well. And, and the great thing about it, I think is that with recycling a lot of time you need to export it in order to mm-hmm. to get to the facilities where you can do. And composting can be done anywhere. You don't need to export the packaging, you don't need to worry about that. You just, it, it can be done locally and cheaply.

Cory Connors: 9:30

that's a really good point. And important to understand. We, we need space. We need a pile, and, and maybe some, some dirt with some worms in it., that's very, very, I. Yeah. Any, any any packaging samples that you have there that you could show us of things that you, you provide, or can you tell us about 'em?

Amir Gross: 9:53

Oh, right. Yeah, sure. So first of all compostable bags. So, first of all, compostable. So that's one of the most common areas where we work and or other growers are using them or you know, food service companies or supply food service. Yeah. Recently we find as a trend a lots of food service companies are, would like to reduce their plastic intake. Mm-hmm.. So they're asking their suppliers, stop sending us plastic. Send us something. Right. And those people are scratching their head what to do. So these are for instance, compostable bags. This is for, for lettuce and fresh produce. It's a, it's quite a clear material. Yeah. And it does the same. It has the same. Similar properties, similar look and feel as conventional plastic, but it's compostable. And this material, what would happen to it in the, in the heat and the humility of the, the compost, it'll disintegrate at the first stage and then it'll be consumed by the compost, the microorganisms and the bacteria in the compost, they, they eat it. Basically, it's, it's small enough for them to put in their mouth and they consume the prostate. This is it's

Cory Connors: 11:00

amazing.

Amir Gross: 11:01

Yeah, this is a compostable zipper bag. This one is a, is a pasta company. And yeah, they, they sell pasta in the post and amazing product. Really good pasta. But yeah zipper, we're looking, the, everything there is environmentally friendly somehow or sustainable. And only those bags were a missing. Piece for them. Another interesting development is this, this is a compostable net. Oh, wow. The produce nets that you know, use for garlic, for citrus, for potatoes. So all of these you know, It's, it's a small bit of plastic that will never get recycled. You wanna, it's not, and that's the problem with a lot of flexible packaging, but it's just too small and not valuable enough to collect. Right. And these nets, you know, they do the same job. It's they're strong they're elastic. They're flexible. They do the same thing, but they're compostable. They're industrially, compostable in this in this case. Great. Another great innovation actually from, from very recent is well, this, again, when you look at it doesn't look like much. is also a compostable bag for bread. So the, the for bread the. With bakery, there was always a challenge for compostable packaging because compostable packaging has very low barriers, and if you've packed bread in, in compostable packaging, it will dry. So we overcome it, overcame it. In the last a couple of months ago, we managed to develop a material with higher barrier. And, you know uh, Corey, you know, if you imagine yourself standing in front of the in the supermarket in front of the shelves of. You can imagine how much plastic there is there right. And all that could be compostable in instead and disappear and return to nature safely. That will be a huge change to to the amount of plastic we generate.

Cory Connors: 12:47

That's really fascinating to hear. That netting material I saw recently a, there's a guy I follow that is a farmer, and he was they were making nets of onions and I thought, wow, that, that material probably won't get recycled. And that's, you're, you're right, it's highly unlikely. What are, what is the, the plastic made of? Is it a bio-based plastic? It's,

Amir Gross: 13:13

It belongs to the group of bioplastics. It's, it's a group of material which are either bio-based or compostable, or both. The, the, the base residents are usually p l a and p B A T. So p l a, a bio-based resin that's derived from things like corn, sugar, beetroot, sugary products. Mm-hmm. And p and P B A T is fossil based material that is chemically engineered to to compost and break.

Cory Connors: 13:42

It's really a, a innovative material, and I've heard a lot of things about it. There, there is some controversy as as there is with most packaging. But I think you know, it's, it's an option and it's, it's something that needs to be observed and looked at. Fascinating work. How, you said you've been doing this for 15 years in the packaging industry. How long has, has Treetop been.

Amir Gross: 14:06

So Treetop has been around for about two and a half years now. Wow. Yeah. It's it started off with with some innovations, with actually with stretch film and shrink film. So one of the first innovations that we brought to the market were a shrink film, a com, a compostable shrink film. And, you know, it's used for for wrapping for wrapping drinks, for wrapping Loads of things are being shrimp for fresh produce, cucumbers, reca, all these things are being shrink wrapped. And again, it's a small bit of plastic that doesn't have it usually doesn't get recycled. And also stretch films and clinging films. Yeah. That again, are material that are not always collected. They are recyclable, but don't get recycled. Yeah. So treetop started with those innovations. And yeah, I've been going for two and a half years. It's we finally seen more, more and more traction in the market. I think as people are realizing the opportunities and the, the, the there's, there are new possibilities to replace some of the challenges now people. Plastic challenges under pressure from consumers, from investors from government regulation and trying to look for green alternatives. And that's what we are doing.

Cory Connors: 15:18

Yes. Well, well said. And, and exciting for the future. Do you advise your clients? And I know the, this is on actually on the client's docket to, to be in charge of but do you advise your clients to put the industrial compostable symbols and mention that the material should not be recycled, but it should be composted?

Amir Gross: 15:42

Definitely. It's look, there's a, there's a huge Well, there's a, there's also a marketing benefit in going to a compostable, if someone is using a compostable material, he, they would be paying more for the packaging . Right? Unfortunately they will be paying more. And, but, you know They need to shout about it and to let the customer know, yeah, this is a compostable material. You need to dispose of it in the com, in the compost facility if, if, if you have access to and yeah, you need to, to shout about it and, and to, to reap the benefit of being a greener and doing the right thing and investing in, in your customers and in the environ.

Cory Connors: 16:18

Yeah. Excellent way to, to end the show. Thank you so much. Amir. Can you tell people how to get in touch with you if they're excited to, to purchase this kind of material?

Amir Gross: 16:29

Yeah, sure. I'm they can first of all find our website treat our bio pack dot co uk And also, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm on LinkedIn like everyone else. Mayor Gross. On LinkedIn. I think there's only one more Mayor Gross,

Cory Connors: 16:40

but he's not so . That's perfect. I, I like that when I have people that have more unique names, they always say, I think I'm the only one. So. That's great.. Well, thank you again, sir. Really appreciate that. Thank you Landsberg Orora for sponsoring the podcast. If you're listening, make sure you subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. And stay tuned for more. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks Cory.