Sustainable Packaging

Packaging that disappears? SmartSolve / Jonathan Jakubowski

March 22, 2023 Cory Connors Season 3 Episode 190
Sustainable Packaging
Packaging that disappears? SmartSolve / Jonathan Jakubowski
Show Notes Transcript

https://www.smartsolve.com/

What if packaging could disappear after use? 
Why are labels that wash away when cleaning so valuable to Domino's pizza? 
Is this the future of sustainable packaging? 

Check out our sponsor Orora Packaging Solutions 
https://ororapackagingsolutions.com/

https://specright.com/ 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1329820053/ref=as_sl_pc_qf_sp_asin_til?tag=corygat

https://www.linkedin.com/in/cory-connors/

I'm here to help you make your packaging more sustainable! Reach out today and I'll get back to you asap.

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Cory Connors:

Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guest is my friend Jonathan from Smart Solve. How are you, Jonathan?

Jonathan Jakubowski:

Great, Corey. Thanks

Cory Connors:

for having me on. Hey, man, I appreciate your time and I'm excited to, to learn about your company and tell the world what you do. Can you introduce yourself and tell us about your title and what you do there at At

Jonathan Jakubowski:

Smarts Solve. Yeah, absolutely. So my name's Jonathan Jacobowsky and I'm calling from Bowling Green, Ohio the Midwest. Not often a place people put together with sustainability, but you'd be surprised. Yeah. And I'm the president of Smart Solve and there's kind of a story to that, that I'm sure we'll get into here in a little bit. But it's an honor to serve in this capacity with some amazing people.

Cory Connors:

That's awesome and and congratulations on your your success of your company and everything that's going on over there. It sounds like really good things are happening. Thank you. Can you tell us about Smart Solve and what it is that you do there?

Jonathan Jakubowski:

Yeah, certainly. The story goes back a little ways is actually the 1950s. There were patents created in Europe around the creation of this substrate called water soluble paper. But none of those patents were commercialized until Daymark, which is a part of C M C group in the 1990s had a customer namely Domino's Pizza. I've enjoyed their pizza for a while now. I've heard of them. Yeah, . Well, they had a problem. Corey. They were trying to resolve an issue where bacteria would transfer from container to container and they wanted this magic label that they could put on those containers so that it would magically disappear when it went through the wash. So it was Daymark safety systems that was able to innovate with an adhesive and that water soluble paper substrate. I just talked. And they created the first label that they commercialized, and then daymark just absolutely exploded. So Daymark is a part of C M C group, and over time as C M C group grew with multiple businesses and divisions, the leaders of the corporation saw the success that DAYMARK had with the water soluble label and began asking the question, are there other markets that we could explore for this label technology? So I was repositioned. I was working for the social enterprise of C M C group, traveling the world, places like East. Southeast Asia, central America, where I got to see a lot of interesting things. It's like water filtration and energy efficient cook stoves. We would integrate clean technologies and technologies that would help improve livelihoods with entrepreneurs. But they repositioned me because they wanted me to investigate the potential of this technology in the markets that exist here in North America. So one of the things that's cool about the story is Al Caper who Alan Kathy are the founders of C M C Group. He always says this, and this stands out to me and it's one of the reasons why we go to market, is you don't just wanna find a need in fill it. You wanna find a hurt and heal. And that was kind of the compelling case of the market research was, are there any hurts out there that this material might be able to help fill? So in my research I ended up seeing as I studied sustainability, very green at that point in time, green to the extent I was a rookie. Learned a whole lot through research that this world is trending towards companies and consumers really understanding and having a desire to be more sustainable in their products and their practices and the way that they operate. So from what I can tell looking at the material and understanding a little bit more about it, there seemed to be a tremendous opportunity that C M C could have if they started a new. So that was my recommendation. And lo and behold, not only did they take the recommendation, they said, Hey, we want you to lead it. So that was back in 2016 and that's, that's when smart solve began.

Cory Connors:

Oh, that's, that's an impressive story. And what a cool background to, to hear that you're trying to help people that need help and, and do the right thing for the environment as well. Well done. Thank you. And so, so these labels dissolve. They d. Yes. Once, once the water,

Jonathan Jakubowski:

there's a technical term. Yeah. There's a technical term between dissolving dissolution and dispersion water. Solu paper doesn't dissolve it disperses. So imagine like a chain-link fence and you introduce water and there's these, these, the process of the way, the way the materials made once you introduce waters, like the keys that unlock the chain link fence into micro fibers that are barely or not visible to the. But the adhesive does dissolve. So the adhesive that we put on the label that does dissolve. It's the water cycle paper that disperses. So that terminology matters when we talk about, okay, does anything remain? Because a lot of our packaging applications, they'll see the wood, the wood pulp that's in the water and say, Hey, this didn't dissolve. Well, it's because it doesn't dissolve. It disperses into microfibers that are then eaten by the natural bacteria and then biodegraded and so and so forth. So, yes, , it disperses and dissolves all.

Cory Connors:

That's amazing. The possibilities here seem endless to me. I'm excited to, to figure out some more ideas. Can you tell us some, some unique ways in which you use this in the world?

Jonathan Jakubowski:

Yeah. Well, you know, I, I think one of the real challenges for us is well I'm, I'm gonna go way off here a little bit, , and I'm not comparing myself to Michelangelo, but I think he can inspire all of us. Why not ? Yeah, that's right. So, Michelangelo, when he would sculpt statues I think that the common term that he used, for example, David in 1501, he was commissioned to sculpt David. The way that he went about it is he said, I see inside of the marble block an angel. I saw it in the marble and I carved it out. You know, I think creation has everything necessary for us to find the secrets, the ingredients, the technologies to help us unlock the things that will enable us to overcome a lot of today's obstacles and challenges. And I think smart solve in their water soluble paper-based technology. Happens to be one of those niche technologies that has a chance to get part of that solution. So in the same way that's how we wanna look at this material substrate and with a number of our customers that we've partnered with companies like Clean With Plus, who is one of the top 200 innovations of 2022 by Time Magazine. We worked with them to get them a, a zero waste pouch that would allow them to take that into the bathroom. And they had incredible success. They went viral and, you know, the, the Time Magazine award was wonderful, but so were many of the other accolades that they received. So from a body wash vantage point to industrial safety with packaging of dry chemicals to toys. To all sorts of other personal consumer applications. We've seen the opportunity grow tremendously, Corey, but the future for us, I think, is even brighter. It's even bigger, it's even better, especially new IP and patent that we've, we've received and where we're headed. So I'm excited to talk more about that as well.

Cory Connors:

Yeah, that's impressive. The, and what you're talking about is like a body wash or a shampoo, I believe. Is that, is that what they make? The, the, the company, yeah.

Jonathan Jakubowski:

So they, they create a body wash sheet, and then they put it inside of our water soluble pouch. And then you just take the pouch into the shower and you tear open the pouch, take out the body wash, and, you know, wash your body. But you just drop all that down the drain and it disappear. It's such

Cory Connors:

a different way of thinking about packaging. Yes. You know, I mean, so many times we talk about single use is, is bad. Well, well this solves that problem in a, yeah, in probably the best way I've ever seen to make it disappear. The second after you use it in an environment where it can literally wash down the drain and not hurt anything is pretty darn amazing. Well,

Jonathan Jakubowski:

Well, that's a high compliment coming from you, Corey. You've met with a lot of organizations and companies, so I, I'm honored that you would say that. And, and I agree. It's, it's pretty exciting stuff, but I'm kind of biased., Cory Connors: well, I love paper-based the right fit, but this seems to be the right situation for 'em. So can you tell us about the consumer interaction with, with this, with this material? Is there ever confusion? Like, what, what do I do? How does this work?? Jonathan Jakubowski: Certainly there, there are challenges, you know, commenced with using a dissolving substrate. You know, one of our, our markets is Amazon and we've sell, I know millions of sheets. People use it for all sorts of things, and they say that by 11 sheets of dissolving paper and we'll get comments that are in the feed. Well, I got this, put it underwater and dissolve. What an earth kind of paper is this. So we, we realized there's probably a disconnect that we have to unlock with a number of the applications that we're engaged in. But to be honest with you, Corey, we're we're not a B2C company. It doesn't mean that we're not gonna get into messaging that's gonna reach the consumer. I think that that's a really important aim of our company as we grow. But we really view ourselves as the aid to the. The hero of our story are the companies, the startups, the Fortune 500 s that we work with. All of them have a vision for making this world more sustainable with a packaging substrate. And they're the heroes of the story. We're the aid, we are the, the Yoda to the Luke Skywalker . So in the process of that communication and connection, as we try to help the hero accomplish their goal, it's our job to help them figure out what the right messaging will. For that substrate in the given context that it's being placed. And there's always different challenges that are unique for every industry we operate in.

Cory Connors:

absolutely. I, I was shopping at a grocery store the other day, which I don't do very often because my wife won't go with me because I look at all the packaging for too long. But I too, by the way, by myself, and I looked down the aisle of shampoo and I thought that's 90%. Yeah. Why? Why are we doing that still? Why are we still shipping each other water to be used in a room that produces water? It doesn't make sense. We gotta stop this. And so I'm excited to see solutions like yours. I did have a, a quick question about grease resistance. That's a common question with materials like yours mm-hmm.. And I actually have a friend who has a company that makes solid shampoo and conditioners called Dip already. Okay. They, they use a paper to wrap their bars because it, if they don't, it will affect the packing. Mm-hmm. Does your material possibly block out grease, or is it grease resistant at.

Jonathan Jakubowski:

Well, maybe let me get into a story, little bit of how our innovation has continued to evolve. So we started with that water soluble label in, in 2016, and then quickly realized that where the herd is is in packaging. Yeah. So we brought our water soluble pouches to market after some innovation on the adhesive side. And that material has zero barrier property. You know, no oxygen, no moisture. Certainly limited or zero grease barrier properties, which limits obviously the, the kind of markets that we can get into. And moreover one of our aims is to be truthful in the way that we communicate what our packaging does and what claims can be made surrounding it. So we've done rigorous research ISO studies and TM studies and all sorts of analyses to ensure that we underst. What things we can say about our materials and what things we can't say about our materials. And as a result of that research, we saw a pretty significant gap, which is why we, we created a patent for a bio-based biopolymer, dual laminate structure that will have, at least in theory now, we have equipment we're building out here in pretty significant CapEx with a new building where we're gonna create God willing, in the near future packaging substrates for the food. That will have grease resistance. We'll have moisture resistance, we'll have oxygen resistance, and we'll be bio poly full, a hundred percent bio-based, which is a, a brand new innovation, pioneering new technology in that marketplace. So not now, but hopefully in the near future.

Cory Connors:

Well, that's an exciting answer. And is that have something to do with the the new patents that you were talking about?

Jonathan Jakubowski:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That, that's what I was referring to. I, I figured we'd circle back one way or another.. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Corey, one of the things I saw, I just got back from Guatemala. I'm separate to the business. I have a foundation down there where we work with children who are at risk and we connect them to mentors through soccer. And it's a, a gospel centered mission that's changed a lot of lives. One of the things that our kids face is in the communities where they live, which are these deep places of violence, fatherlessness, poverty malnourishment, but all you can see around there is this plastic pollution everywhere. And most of it emanates from, from the food packaging cuz they, they don't have enough to afford kind of the commodities that. We're used to here in America, but they have to eat. And I looked at that and I just said, man, what a, what a, what an eyesore to have to look at. And there was sure enough research done by Mackenzie Group that studied the perceptions of consumers in different parts throughout the world and the consumers that had the perception of needing the greatest amount of change in packaging. Come from places like Guatemala, India, China Indonesia. So one of the first places that I, I could see us operating in, especially given our history of work in some of these places is in the food aid industry. There's a ton of packages that go out and in, in countries where they have zero infrastructure, they don't have recycling centers. Compost centers, they don't even have landfills or landfills that are used in the right way. It's just the iso plastic pollution everywhere we are. We would love to participate in delivering packaging that helps that food be consumed in such a way that there's not litter that's gonna be left behind to create the eyesore that.

Cory Connors:

that's an amazing goal and I certainly support you in that because it's critical to the future of this planet that we figure out that issue in particular. We're very fortunate here in North America. To have recycling and landfills that are managed properly. And when you talk about some of these other countries that really struggle with handling all this volume of material we need to be there for them to help them figure this out. Because a lot of that material started here in North America, . So and, and it really frankly doesn't matter where it came from. It matters how it ends up. And so it's a, it's an exciting opportunity to, to be helper with that. I'd love to come see your new facility when it's up and running and yeah, watch how your, your material gets.

Jonathan Jakubowski:

Yeah, we'd love to have you. You know, the, the patent's not in how the innovation's made. It's actually the structure itself, which gives it a little more mph. It's a we're really excited about, about the news. But we'd love to have you out here as the, the asset itself and the process is quite complex because one of the big questions is how do you coat water soluble PA paper, which disappears. With any substrate, any polymer, that's gonna create some form of aqueous interaction. And that's really the secret that allowed CMC Group daymark and eventually Smart Solve to be able to be unique in what we do in the value proposition we deliver.

Cory Connors:

That is the first time I've heard the phrase aqueous interaction. And I, I promise you I'll use that again. That's an awesome one. You're more

Jonathan Jakubowski:

than welcome. I have not trademarked that at all. Corey, maybe you can using the term that you can recycle here.. Cory Connors: That's it. It's recycling. That's it. We're reusing and recycling. That's the best way to do it. So any interesting stories or funny things that have happened to you while you're developing this new process or building the new facility? Oh, too many, too many to tell Courtney. I'll, I'll tell you what the, the funniest thing I think is we end up in the bathroom all the time, . So the most uncomfortable conversations you can imagine. Are resulting as a re, you know, because of this material can be flushed down the toilet. By the way, the the I mentioned certifications. So one of the things that separates our materials is the ability to be flushed, but there's not a lot of flush ability certifications that exist. So we use the FG 5 0 2 series that is a way of what's primarily created for wipes and toilet. And since there, it wasn't created for a substrate like ours. We can't make the claim that it's FG 5 0 2 certified, but we can make the claim that has passed all the testing. That's not Oh, yeah. For that certification because it's not a wipe and it's not toilet paper and it, it passes with flying colors because obviously the function of the material is, is bent for that purpose. So we do all this research and we have a lot of companies that come to us that are gonna be used in that context. So everything from bowel move. To, you know, gastro elements that I can't even begin to describe to really interesting questions. Yeah. We, we have we had one company that patented this device called flush Away, and they use our board Stock substrate. It's a really compelling story actually because the, the inventor's name's Brian McCormick from Scotland. He was a survivor of colon. Oh wow. And he saw that colon screenings were, were pretty difficult to have done. And in, in the UK they really wanted to limit costs. So in, instead of doing colonoscopies, they would try to send out these devices for people to do at-home tests, but no one would do them, or limited amounts of people would do them because they were very inconvenient. And uncomfortable to deal with. So he created this device that using our material as the base material that you could flush down the toilet. And the first time I met him, he came to Bowling Green. And, and I, I didn't know what to expect by walking into the room. And there's pictures of bowels and all sorts of specimens. Not in the room. No. What have I walked into?

Cory Connors:

Talk about intimate. Ugh. Oh, man. Yeah, a lot of stories like that. Well, that sounds pretty crappy to me, but I'm very interested in what you're doing. Well done, and congratulations. I'm excited to see the continued success of your company because it sounds like you're, you're making big progresses in the world of sustainable packaging, so thank

Jonathan Jakubowski:

you. We, we hope so. Thank you. I, I appreciate that. It really is a joy. And then behind me here we have our core values. Corey, you and I were just talking a little bit about what core values mean. You know, en rot had four core values posted in their lobby. I think of integrity excellence. I can't remember all of them, but it doesn't mean anything if it's just posted on a wall. You wanna take core values and you wanna make them behaviors. You want them to be things that are practiced by the people in your company. And as a company, that's one of the things we try to do is we, we try to recognize that business is much more than just a financial transaction. There are stakeholders which include employees, which include our customers, also includes the environment. By the way, God's given us this amazing creation to steward. So we firmly believe in that and seek to make these practices become something that we embody and live. And it doesn't mean that we're a hundred percent. I'm not a hundred percent. Our, our team will tell you that. But it's something that we strive for. And because we have such a compelling technology that allows us to be engaged in that stewardship piece where we're playing one small role in this big, broad earth with this big obstacle and challenge, we can play a little bit of Michelangelo and trying to carve out of that structure something beautiful, good and true that can help us in solving some of these major.

Cory Connors:

Very well said. And what a great way to end the show. How, how do we get in touch with you and your company?

Jonathan Jakubowski:

Well, you know, our, our manager for social media would shoot me if I didn't end the right way. So yeah, we, we have we have an Instagram profile I mentioned also, we're just getting into social media. A number of our customers have gone viral with our technology, but we've been so focused on getting it working and supporting them that, that we haven't really built a social media foundation. So this is a huge opportunity for us to be on your podcast. And in the next year, we're gonna continue to emphasize more ways to engage with consumers in that manner. Educate and also help our customers grow their, their market share. So we have an Instagram account that you can find. I think our link is at Smart Solve. End Smart Solve, i n d. Okay. And then we have a LinkedIn profile, which is just Smart Solve linkedin.com slash Smart Solve. And then of course, our website, which is Smart Solve dot.

Cory Connors:

Well, that's awesome and I'd love to hear that people are getting into social media. Send me some samples of your product and I'll make some TikTok videos for you. Oh, heck yeah.

Jonathan Jakubowski:

No, you've got a deal. I got some right here in this roommate. We'll, we'll make sure we make that happen. We'll, we'll send Love the see promoted. Love

Cory Connors:

me too. Thank you, sir. Thanks, Jonathan. Really appreciate this. And thank you LANs Aurora for sponsoring. If you're listening, make sure you subscribe so you don't miss the next episode, and stay tuned for more. Thank you.