Bold Reuse / Jocelyn Quarrell CEO / Heather Watkins CRO

https://www.boldreuse.com/

How have they diverted 1,500,000 pounds of gel packs from the landfill? 
can sports arenas stop using single use packaging for their food and drinks? 
Is it possible to end single use packaging? 

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I'm here to help you make your packaging more sustainable! Reach out today and I'll get back to you asap.

This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022.

Transcript

Cory Connors: 0:31

Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guests are hometown heroes from Portland, Oregon. My friends Jocelyn and Heather. I'm excited., so excited to talk to you both and, and learn about your stories and learn about what you're doing. But can you introduce yourselves and tell us about your backgrounds a little

Jocelyn Quarrell: 0:48

bit. Yeah, you bet Corey. And thank you so much for your generous invitation to come on the Sustainable Packaging Podcast. We're so grateful to be here. My name is Jocelyn Quarrell and I am the c e o and Co-founder of Bold Reuse.

Heather Watkins: 1:01

And I am Heather Watkins and I am Chief Revenue Officer of Bold, reuse and Co-founder

Cory Connors: 1:07

Next. And it's Portland, Oregon, based and founded in Oregon, or did you move?

Jocelyn Quarrell: 1:13

Yeah, founded in Oregon. And well the, the story of where bold reuse, how bold reuse was born is an interesting one. A bit atypical maybe than some other startups. So before we were called Bold Reuse, the company was Go Box and Go Box. Oh yeah. Originally founded back in 2011 by a person named Laura Weiss. And so Laura worked to devise this system of reusable packaging really focused on downtown food carts that we have an abundance of here in Portland. Yeah. And the. The high tech companies that surrounded those food courts. So she was coordinating with those companies to subsidize employee access, to be able to utilize the reusable containers when they went out to lunch at these food card pods. So that's kinda like the, the foundation where Bold was born. I acquired the company in 2019 from Laura, and this was after six months of, well, one, learning about the national sewer policy that China enacted. Mm-hmm., and how that was going to disrupt our domestic recycling system. And as an aside, that might be an atypical thing for just like a, a person to be aware of and even like take interest in. Right. But I'm a public radio junkie and then, you know, before I was building a career in sustainable sharing system. So I had spent nearly a decade first working in car sharing and then transitioning into bike sharing systems. Wow. And so I had this sort of systems-based approach to solving environmental challenges. I wasn't working in that space at the time, but I was really eager to get back into it. And so fast forward to learning about the ch the National Sword Policy and then coming upon Go Box as a business for sale. the first place I saw that was in Facebook at a, and a Facebook group called Women Bike. And Laura had posted her business sale there, and so I reached out to her through Facebook and said, I'm interested in learning more. And like I said, we spent about six months getting to know each other. I really started to lean into how does recycling currently work? Why does, why is it not working any longer? What does this policy that China's enacting mean and basically came to the resolution that. Disruption was needed and like we were ripe for it and wanting it. And here was this little fledgling organization that offered a starting point, so I didn't have to start from scratch. So I wrote a check for my entire life savings and June 1st, 2018 took over and, and Laura was retiring, so she like the next day, like moved outta state and I was, On my own , wave in the woods,

Cory Connors: 3:52

Geez. Wow. Talk about it. Risk taking. Congratulations and good for you. Thank you. That's you. So cool. I'm, I'm

Jocelyn Quarrell: 4:01

totally impressed. Thank you very much and Heather joined our team earlier this year. Do you wanna speak about where Sure you came from

Heather Watkins: 4:08

yeah, I've been in tech, I live in San Francisco for more than a decade, working for lots of different SaaS companies and I just was really. disheartened. I'm like, why am I helping sell more t-shirts or like, whatever the software was helping doing this was right. Kinda silly. And then I found my dream job in Impossible Foods working on climate issues, but I really always wanted to be an entrepreneur at my heart. And I left Impossible Foods early this year, and I put it into the ether that I wanted to be a co-founder and join a business that was helping solve. Really important climate problem. And Jocelyn and I were introduced and it just became a match made in history. My, my background is marketing, sales, and growth and business, and hers is in logistics and sustainability and operations. And we just have this amazing opportunity, especially in b2b, in the B2B space around re reuse to really scale and support a big business need and make a big impact.

Cory Connors: 5:02

awesome story. Cool backgrounds. I, I've heard recently somebody saying, don't go into business with someone who's just like you. True. And, and it sounds like you have found your polar opposites and it's, it seems to be an incredible,

Heather Watkins: 5:19

it's is funny. I mean, you should, you say that, but then it's like, oh, our music tastes our book taste, we show up

Jocelyn Quarrell: 5:26

in sometime. It's funny.

Heather Watkins: 5:29

But yes. From a, from an experience set, definitely

Jocelyn Quarrell: 5:32

different perspective, complimentary experiences. Yes. With still lots of overlap. You know, shared values, shared vision, same level of motivation. We, we, you know, I didn't think I was gonna be able to find anyone that worked harder than me, and like Heather works harder than me and I just grateful to have her as a co-founder. So,

Cory Connors: 5:53

yeah. Well, Wonderful. And just really, really cool to see two very, very strong people doing very good things in the world of sustainability. I appreciate it personally and professionally. I'm excited to learn more about what it is that that Bold Reuse does. Can you tell us a little bit about a project that you've worked on recently or something that was really interesting. I know you worked with some very big clients. Yeah.

Jocelyn Quarrell: 6:19

Yeah. So if I may, first, I'll share our, our mission statement, cuz that kind of helps to put out there what we do. So our mission statement is to end single use waste by making reusable packaging easy for all. Our approach to that is by focusing on companies primarily food service, hospitality, or c p G brands. Really provide the mission critical services, sanitation and logistics, as well as strategy services. How do we really implement and manage a successful reuse program and then provide really powerful analytics so that they understand how this reuse program is working for them. It's it, is it achieving their goals? What opportunity exists to innovate and push best practices? So yeah, we've had the opportunity to work with some really remarkable clients. To that end Starbucks called us in late 2020 and was seeking support for a Borrow Cup program that they were launching that next year. And we were honored to be able to, to work with them on that. And it was such a steep learning curve and I think, you know, coming out, so that was. Pandemic days, right? Remember? Yeah, like fall 2020. It was still pretty dark and it had been very dark for a few months because. You know, when initially hit in March, 2020, we had to completely shut down due to, no, nobody knew how transmission was happening. There was some concerns that was touching things, and so everyone was like, I don't know where this came from. Not touching it. Right? There were, there were days when I was like, I don't know if we recover from this. Like, if, if people are scared to reuse things, how, yeah, how do we bring this to, to scale? But I, I think the, you know, that summer, a consortium of scientists and health professionals, they made clear that through existing hygiene practices mm-hmm. That we can control this virus through, you know, surface transmission. So that opened, , the light appeared again, the end of the tunnel. And then to that inbound from Starbucks was really wonderful. It was a very steep learning curve. You know, we had to expand our services to Seattle temporarily to support them but re remarkable learning opportunity. And then the second client I would like to call out is Imperfect Foods. So they're direct to consumer grocery brand and they, they also gave us a ring in late 2020 and said, You know, we're, we're really hitting our stride in the pandemic. People are ordering groceries and they're not going out to the grocery store anymore, but every consumer box includes a gel pack., and we're hearing from our customers that their freezers are full of gel packs and that we have to do something about it, right? True. Like people don't like throwing things away even less when it's something that they can identify as possibly reusable. They just need the means to be able for that to happen. So our partnership with imperfect is, Is awesome because they handle the logistics, right? They're already going direct to consumers homes, and so they can backhaul that product really effectively and efficiently. Perfect. And we just, pallets, literally, we're transporting pallets of gel packs back and forth from imperfect twice a week like. 25, 30,000 gel packs for sanitizing for them on a weekly basis. We've been working with them for almost two years now, and the impact from our partnership with them is just, it's so so visceral. When you're in our facility and you see pallets of reusable products and then we're removing them, you know, twice a week, you're just like, oh my gosh. All of that could potentially be going to the landfill. But instead, consumers are helping, imperfect is helping. We're helping. This is a real win win win. That's awesome. great things to reduce carbon emissions and keep things out of our local

Heather Watkins: 10:05

landfills. Yeah. We've reduced, oh I think about a million and a half pounds of gel.

Cory Connors: 10:11

I was just gonna ask, have you done the math? How, how much is that? 1.5 million.

Jocelyn Quarrell: 10:16

Wow. Yeah. Maybe we tried to do, we were like, what do we relate that to? Like how many elephants? Anyways, it's a, it's a lot before . It's like for giant whales.

Heather Watkins: 10:24

Yes.

Cory Connors: 10:25

that's such a reusable item and it's such a simple thing. I mean, I've seen 'em they where they have a compostable bag and a, you know, you can dump this, the blue stuff into your garden. I don't know people that are gonna do that. That

Heather Watkins: 10:38

doesn't seem I, I've even done it. And you feel guilty. I'm like, I don't wanna put this corn starch in the gar. It just doesn't feel right. Something feels like it might be careful. I don't know if I trust this, but yeah. Their customers love it and they've reduced their churn from it. Mm-hmm., because people are excited that there's actually, they're figuring out a problem, having a solution for it. Yep. So we have a lot, we have funding interest in from meal delivery because this is such a growing market. There's so many different custom meal plans, go direct to your house, and they all have this problem with all their packaging and their customers don't want it in their front door.

Cory Connors: 11:45

Right. Is it possible that the, the rest of the packaging could be reusable for something like that?

Heather Watkins: 11:51

So they, they are collecting a lot of the packaging. So there's like a, a thermal wrap that they're reusing. They've got the box itself, I don't think they're currently reusing, but we're, we're working with another meal delivery service here in Portland and all of the packaging, so all the food. Containers as well as the gel packs and the bag all be washed and sanitized by us. So there are amazing. Yeah, and we're talking about a huge one in LA that's very excited about doing an a reusable program. So people are thinking bigger than just gel packs

Jocelyn Quarrell: 12:22

for sure. And, and again, these programs are not just like a way to check a sustainability box. This is imperative to their growth within their target audiences. uh, And reducing churn as well as meaning their sustainability goal. So it, but it's so much more than just sustainability. It really is central to their business models, which is, yeah. So great to see.

Heather Watkins: 12:43

Well, the other cool thing is we, we were able to calculate, they would save basically 50%. The big, big one we're talking about that we're, we're negotiating right now. They would reduce their packaging costs by 50% by including a. Return reuse program, which is incredible for their bottom.

Cory Connors: 13:01

And it could be a make or break. I think, there are companies who are teetering and they're struggling with certain, you know, socioeconomic issues that are happening., cost of labor's going up. These things, they, other things are affecting the bottom line in such a big way. And if, if you can come in and say, , your, your packaging is at half the price all of the sudden. And we're, we're also gonna build a loyalty program where you're not gonna lose customers. That's amazing. And PS you're, you're helping save the environment in a huge way. Mm-hmm.. Well done. I'm, I'm so impressed. I, , as we said earlier, I'm a fellow Portlander, and I saw you were working on a project at the Moda Center. Can you tell us about that and how that could relate to other Sports arenas.

Jocelyn Quarrell: 13:48

Yeah. Love to. Heather, why don't you take a shot?

Heather Watkins: 13:51

Yeah. So the Moda Center and the Portland Trailblazers one, they've always been in the, at the forefront of sustainability. They were one of the, I think the first lead certified building. They really care about sustainability and especially, I didn't know that.

Jocelyn Quarrell: 14:03

Awesome.

Heather Watkins: 14:04

Definitely care about sustainability. So the city of Portland no longer accepts food wear into the com compostable waste streams. And so they went from diverting 80% plus of their waste to diverting, you know, way less than that. So they were looking for a solution to this issue and they saw reuse as a, as a solution. And they called us and said we'd love to test out Reuseable packaging, especially around food and beverage containers within starting at our club level. So that's what we've been doing since September. This year all the concessions on their club level, the food like nachos and burgers and, you know, burritos are all coming in a reusable tray instead of a boat. And after people are done consuming that, they put it into the reusable bin and we pick it up and it goes right back to the stadium. So it's reducing reducing carbon, reducing waste, just like and consumer. Normally when you're in an arena, you can't engage in their sustainability efforts. You're not engaging in their lighting or their energy consumption, right? You can engage in you know, this reuse program. So people are very excited about it. We did some testing with customers a few weeks ago, and somebody said it makes them feel like home. Like when you, I don't remember the exact story, but

Jocelyn Quarrell: 15:16

it was so sweet. He was just talking about how reuse is normal at their home, like mm-hmm. they use, you know, Tupperware containers and. It's just central to their, their family's, you know, sort of, that's how they live. And so I thought that was just such a sweet sentiment that like, yeah, like we do have the opportunity to normalize reuse. And it's, it's not, it's not far off. Like people are already doing this in grasp. Ways at home. We just need an efficient way to to do it at scale. To systematize it at scale.

Heather Watkins: 15:47

Yeah. But now it's so exciting cuz the trailblazers have trailblazed and they something that's easy for everybody to see and feel and un understand the model. And now we're just getting inundated with different sports teams and stadiums. They're saying, yeah, I'm ready. They're doing it. Like, it seems like it's a, a something easy that we can implement. And again, now it's actually a. It's cost neutral or even they're making money because they can sponsor the whole program. Right. Normally there's millions of dollars in packaging that they literally just toss. And they just kept having to buy more and more, and now they have an asset and they can sponsor it, and it's becoming a revenue generator for them. Yeah. So that's a

Jocelyn Quarrell: 16:25

huge, it's just such a huge shift from like a liability to an asset. Yes. Like, and try and. You know, rep helping them wrap their minds around that, cuz it is such a dramatic shift. But what, yeah, what is really, really great is, as you would anticipate in the professional sports space, venues are competitive with one another. So like Right. You know, one gets started and then the others are like, Hey, excuse me. Like, what are you doing? We, we need that. Our customers are expecting that we need to be leading, so

Cory Connors: 16:53

we're gonna do that better than you. Yeah. Right, right.

Heather Watkins: 16:55

And it's a very replicable

Jocelyn Quarrell: 16:56

example, right? Like, What an opportunity. It's like high volume onsite consumption that is just so again, it's, it's so much easier to collect on site rather cuz the packaging isn't going out of the venue like traditional takeout. Right. Everybody. Oh, okay. Within, in a very small geographic footprint. So that makes our jobs as, as operators even more efficient and effective to be able to scale to, yeah, really scale to meet that high volume. in a single, in a single venue. So,

Cory Connors: 17:27

so companies are paying to, , or potentially could , pay to have their logos or their information on this packaging mm-hmm. and it will get reused in perpetuity and cleaned onsite? Or do you, do they bring it to your.

Jocelyn Quarrell: 17:45

Yeah, so we, one of our big value propositions is we, we haul all of this stuff offsite for you. So you know, their team is helping us collect it at the end of events. But then we visit the stadium, we collect all of that. Use packaging, reuse packaging, we back haul it to our facility and then it goes through a very vigorous quality control wash, drive, prepare for delivery back. Cuz that's just gonna make it so much easier for them. Right. They don't have to worry about the infrastructure, they don't have to worry about the link. Oh, cool. So that's our goal is really, again, to make it as easy as possible for. To make this transition happen. Yeah. They don't have to worry

Heather Watkins: 18:22

about liability. We've invested a ton in health and safety. Yeah. And in our process, so that that's definitely something that's unique and special and they don't have to stress about it.

Jocelyn Quarrell: 18:30

Yeah. One, one note you were talking about like adding logos and messaging. Mm-hmm.. It's, again, this is a shift in thinking, but we do try to keep the packaging as utilitarian as possible. We don't want it to look like a souvenir cup or a soir , right? Cause that, you know, people are encouraged then to take it home if it has a professional sports team logo on it. They're like, I want this. So we have to be about how we were designing this packaging so that customers recognize it as reusable. Think that is the coolest thing that they've ever seen, but don't want to keep. They're like excited to return it when they're done with it. But yes, yeah, the opportunity to add a sponsorship logo to that and again, turn it into an asset for these teams to be able to sell a sponsor for the program is pretty remarkable.

Cory Connors: 19:17

That's amazing. What, what is the attrition rate of the packaging? Like, how, how much of it gets damaged? Just generally, I won't hold you to these numbers, but just in.

Jocelyn Quarrell: 19:26

Yeah. You know what we're seeing at the Mota Center is very dependent on the event. Hmm. So, as basketball season has, has really come, get, gotten up to speed, we're, we're realizing that customers are becoming acclimated to reusable packaging. They recognize it now. They understand it. And, and so we're starting to see higher return rates. Some other events, you know, whether it's a, a music event or maybe a comedy event that might be the, you know, the only time a person, you know, is able to to go to one of those events in the, you know, in a period of time. So they might not have the ability to, to learn about the program quickly. And that could potentially lead to. Some loss attrition. There again, people either accidentally putting them into the wrong bend, which we're actively doing, sorting at the end of events to Oh, good. Or people walk away with it. So we're still very much in learning mode. But I'll, I'll tell you this much, our return rate is in much higher, much higher than what our current like recyclable rate is in this country. So

Cory Connors: 20:33

like, can you share that number or?

Heather Watkins: 20:36

I, I would say with Moda it's, it's we can't, it's confidential, however we give s so, and it depends too on if it's the closed loop system versus more of an open loop system with a restaurant. So if, if you're a restaurant and people are leaving with it, you can expect return rates of. 50%, let's say 50 to 70%, depending on how intense your incentivization model is to come back with the packaging, if you have a deposit return model attached to it, et cetera. We have seen some with deposit return model of up to a 90% return, right? So in some of these closed loop events, locations, you can expect between a 90 and 98% return rate. People aren't leaving with it on site.. So it, it really depends on how, what's the incentivization model that you're encouraging customers to to bring it back? How easier are you making it for them to return it? What, like what kind of waste drop sites you have? So there's a ton of strategy and psychology that goes behind this, but you, we, you know, we can see some really high return rates, especially for in-person events that they're not walking away with packing.

Cory Connors: 21:38

That's exciting and impressive, frankly. That's really good. How do you clean the packaging? Does it, does it go through a, like a, I use, my first job was dishwasher at Sunshine Pizza and Clackamas. Oh, nice. Is it, does it go through dishwasher, like industrial machines like that? Or is it like a big room that you fill, or how does it.

Jocelyn Quarrell: 21:59

Yeah, so we are using commercial dishwashing equipment and we've kind of built onto existing restaurant systems to be able to automate parts of our process that helps us great with the and and just the flow. So, so yeah, it's, it's not particularly. Any newfangled machinery that we've developed or anything like that. Our, our session sauce is really in how we do the work that we're doing. Like our, our efficiency when it comes to the work that we do, the sanitization that we do, is how we are able to be cost com comparative. Mm-hmm., or even mm-hmm.. The cost of some single use items, especially like more expensive compostable items, like we're way less expensive than those, those products are. But we're utilizing known, you know, hygiene principles, high heat chlorine for our, for our single. Agent and we're actually, we already have and continue to invest heavily working with food safety, like certified Food safety specialists. Mm-hmm., you know, we've developed a quality manual with all of the policies, processes you know, dictating everything from employee training to daily facility maintenance and cleaning. So that we are able to match global manufacturing standards and compliancies. So we feel so strong about our work in that in that space. And right now we, you know, honestly, we sort of operate in a, in a gray area. Like the re the regulators at various levels, both at city, state, and federal, they don't quite know what to do with us yet. There's a very involved conversation happening amongst smart scientists and they, they're trying to figure how we integrate this into food safety laws and codes. Right. Which there isn't a. Consistency at even just like neighboring cities will have like different food codes. But what we don't wanna, what we want to avoid happening is the same thing with happen with recycling, where it's different in like every municipality that you go to. And that's one of the reasons why the infrastructure doesn't work the way that we want it to. So we we're, we're trying to take a, a lead in that space and say, In the absence of regulatory oversight, , we're investing in those health and safety practices that we know we need to be doing anyways to be able to convey to our clients and their customers the sense of security, that we are reducing risk at every stage that we possibly can to ensure that our packaging, the packaging that we're servicing is, is safe and clean and healthy, and will be with every single reuse.

Cory Connors: 24:34

Thank you. Very, very good. Very, very impressive. Very exciting for the future. I've always thought that reusable packaging is, is gonna be a much larger piece of the pie of sustainable packaging in the future. And I'm excited to see someone local who's doing a great job at it. I have a interesting

Jocelyn Quarrell: 24:52

question industry, so it's huge, huge Hutus. Yeah. We're, we're everybody, even our, the, you know, competitors that we do have. We're all just scratching the surface. There's so much more to grow.

Cory Connors: 25:03

You're exactly right. And that leads right into this question. I think my question is, is there an area of society that uses packaging that you think should be reusable but isn't?

Jocelyn Quarrell: 25:18

All of them ? Yes. What would you say, Heather? Well,

Heather Watkins: 25:23

I, I think one of the areas that we're really excited about that's super hard is retail, grocery packaging. That is where so much single use is coming from. Yeah. And we actively have a project right now that we're working on with a local grocery store chain and a bunch of local. Food manufacturers where we're gonna create a, a closed loop circle where the, the packaging will be coming in, glass jars. We'll be collecting that from customers, washing it, giving it back to those local manufacturers to refill with. Peanut butters, et cetera. So I think that is a very exciting place that we are just getting started on. Mm-hmm. and, and obviously like the food, food consumed on in events and in person and onsite, like that's just an easy win. Anything that's consumed onsite, even if it's just regular packaging shipping, packaging, et cetera. Like there, there's just, it's so easy for us to get into those, but the harder stuff is on this retail side. So I, ideally, all the people that have onsite assumption, let's move as soon as possible, and I think, we'll the next two to three years and make it super.

Jocelyn Quarrell: 26:27

One, one other industry that I would love to manifest some business partnership . Let's do it.

Cory Connors: 26:33

Would

Jocelyn Quarrell: 26:33

be the airplane as well. Talk about a captive audience. Like

Heather Watkins: 26:37

you take three sip of water and the cups used. That tries me nuts. I mean,

Jocelyn Quarrell: 26:41

I agree. Recently, and they handed me a can and I was like, great. And then they handed me a, a single use cup and I was like, I don't need that. I can just drink outta

Cory Connors: 26:49

this. Right. This is, this is already a container. I don't need another one. Yeah.

Jocelyn Quarrell: 26:54

But I know some people enjoy drinking out of cups or like you want ice with your beverage. So easy opportunity for that to be a reusable item. Yeah. And. We wash it. Super simple. Yeah.

Heather Watkins: 27:05

We're working, we're manifesting the Portland, Seattle we're opening up in Seattle. Mm-hmm. and what all the flights are going between there. It should be very easy to implement a useful system, so,

Cory Connors: 27:16

well, if Alaska Airlines is listening, call these amazing people and they will set it up so you, you don't need boxes of water when we can have reusable containers. This is, I think, Absolutely makes sense. It's so simple and I would be honored to be a part of that solution. As a consumer. I am a huge fan of their airline. So what's what's the best way for people to get in touch with you when they're ready to start a new project?

Heather Watkins: 27:48

Yeah, so well, I'm heather@boulderuse.com. Yeah, just email us. That would be fantastic., we've had a lot of really interesting large global companies calling us recently, like large packaging manufacturers, large. Uh, Beverage manufacturers, like lots of very, very exciting conversations. And I think people are really starting to put big goals out there. Yeah. And they're actually in pilots, so we would love to be a solution provider and we're not just in the Pacific Northwest. We're expanding planning to expand to LA as well as a few other really core. Within 2023. So it the sky's the limit. It's really what's the imagination and what's the ambition of these companies we're working with, and we'll, we'll match it. Yeah.

Jocelyn Quarrell: 28:29

So yeah, Heather and our team also, we put together a, a super helpful white paper to help people. Approach this because it can be a very fraught topic to even know where do I, where do I begin thinking about reusable packaging? And so is that available on our website? Yep. Great. So bold reuse.com. That white paper is there so you can download it and, and read it during your holiday break. And our contact information is in there as well. But yeah, we. So much of what we love doing is working with people that know there's a better way out there. They just need a little bit of guidance and partnership to, to make it happen and to see these programs to life. And, and we just get so much joy out of working with these, these companies and these, these individuals, I should say, at these companies that really are, are motivated to make a difference, make a difference, make a really.

Cory Connors: 29:25

That's the sentiment and that's the future of this whole thing, is the people that are actually in the trenches. I, I'd like to include myself in that. But the three of us, I think we're working very hard to improve and to educate and to show that it's possible. Yeah, I think that's why I started this podcast. I want people to know what's out there so that they can improve the sustainability of their packaging.

Jocelyn Quarrell: 29:49

Yeah. And then goal for us is we wanna make. You feel like a superhero, whether you as a business owner or a customer of a business or whatever it might be, it feels so good to not throw something away. Yeah, just the act of saving something from destruction. And we, we want to empower that feeling really helped shift people away from the dread and, and you know, some of the anxiety that comes around. Feeling like our current take make waste system. So our future, it's very bright, it's optimistic, it is generous, and it is full of mutual wins. Like we can do this.

Cory Connors: 30:29

What a great way to end it. Thank you so much. Very well said. Two amazing people doing great things. Thank you both. Thank you Landsberg Orora for sponsoring this podcast. If you're listening, make sure you subscribe so you don't miss the next episode, and stay tuned for more. Thank you. Thank

Jocelyn Quarrell: 30:44

you, Corey.