Sustainable Packaging

Solid Shampoo and Conditioner founders Kate and Jonathan Assaraf / DIP

July 08, 2022 Cory Connors Season 2 Episode 125
Sustainable Packaging
Solid Shampoo and Conditioner founders Kate and Jonathan Assaraf / DIP
Show Notes Transcript

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Welcome to sustainable packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guests are the founders of dip. I have Kate and Jonathan Assaraf . How are you guys? Great. We're great. Thanks. I'm a huge fan of your products. I'm a huge fan of what you are doing as far as a new concept of products. And I can't wait to tell everyone about them, but let's start with your backgrounds. How did you. Get to this point in your careers. I'll let Jonathan start. Cuz he's been in the beauty industry longer. yeah, I've been an industrial designer. So my background has been in beauty packaging for 15 years now, so, oh. And then we just kind of wanted to do it for ourselves. Yep. He's being very humble. He's he designed Kim Kardashians fragrance. He I've heard of her. Yeah. Yeah. He's worked on, he's worked on household brands that, that you just hear in beauty all the time, mostly behind the scenes as an industrial designer. Sorry. I he's he's, he's eaten too much humble pie this morning. Yeah. But he's worked on really cool. Huge global campaigns. Yeah. Mostly been on the product side, not necessarily the branding side of it. So this is kind of a, I guess, a new endeavor, but super exciting. Just having an understanding of 3d certainly helps the whole experience. I bet. Yeah, well, that's amazing. And industrial design to me is incredible and I'm, I'm totally impressed with what you've done, not just with that, but with your new products here for dip. Yeah. And so Kate, how about you? What's your, what's your background? So my background, I first started in corporate events when I was pretty young big, big events like for CNN or Turner sports or you know, all the, just big, huge campaigns. And then I moved over into the beauty industry. I moved out to LA to work for a company called skin cosmetics, which does a lot of. You know at the time did a lot of like the QVC style of selling. And then I worked for Kardashian brand after that. And then I moved into the toy industry and then I came back to beauty actually. And that's, that's kind of how I landed back into this. You guys are like the Kardash. Is that a, yeah, they Kardash as much you know, as, as much as people knock them, they're responsible for generating a lot of income and salaries for a lot of people that, that you don't even think of. I agree. I think it's impressive what they've done with their careers and good for them. You know, people like what they're selling and they're buying it obviously. So crazy good for them. Yeah. Well, let's talk about dip. How did you guys come up with this concept? First of all? So back when I was pregnant with my first son my older brother who has four kids handed me this book called boys adrift. And it was basically, it was, I found out I was having a boy and a middle Eastern. So my, my brother gave me this book and how to make a productive son or like the things you should have having, which is like a very silly. Kind of older brother gift to give me, but I did read it. And one of the factors that was just kind of a little piece of the book was how plastics affect hormones. They, their endocrine disruptors, right. And, and all of a sudden, and it wasn't a big part of the story, but the author talked about, there was runoff into the Potomac river that they found the male fish in the river started laying eggs. Wow. And it blew my mind almost, almost to a degree that I just could. I couldn't like breathe. It was, it was just crazy to think because you know, when you're pregnant, they tell you to drink a lot of water. So what do you, do you drink bottled water? Like this was, you know, 2015, like, it was just kind of normal. Yeah. And then you kind of do this own audit of your behaviors and how much I lived in Manhattan at the time, how much takeout you get in hot containers, where the plastic kind of reaches into the food. And, and so I started immediately. Not caring so much about that book and the contents of it. but mostly about like the plastic, it just blew my mind. And then I found out then which is, you know, eight years ago that plastic wasn't being recycled either. So not only was it not getting a new life, it was just accumulating. So between the health effects of plastic and the accumulation, it just made my mind spin out of control. So I tried to reduce my plastic. And shampoo conditioner bars were out there at the time. But they were not, I would say to my standards basically. And and I think a lot of it has to do with at the time. Those bars were trying to capture a certain consumer that I just wasn't part of, you know, I'm, I'm not because I've been in, in beauty business for a long time. I didn't necessarily want just an all natural product. I just wanted plastic free. So eventually after several iterations, I've, we've gotten to dip and it, and I've tested on every hair type and it's, and it works and it's like, beautiful. And I. I don't know, I'm just super proud of it. Cause I love it so much. And I've never had to use a bottle again. That's amazing what I, I bought some things and you gave me some things. Thank you again for that. But I wanna talk about. How it works and why it's more sustainable than the standard bottles of shampoo and conditioner that we've all been accustomed to for so long. I know that's a very basic question for you, but we, we need to explain it to everyone. Why is a bar, a concentrated bar more sustainable than a full bottle of Shamp. So the first one is it doesn't have any water weight, basically. So it's cheaper to ship. Just as far as carbon emission. It's cheaper more fit in a box than a bottle. So it you know, that's the carbons outta it. Yeah. Yeah. You get more space. It's why it's better to ship Jack Daniels than it is absolute. Right. Cause the ship's better. The other thing is that the, so this is what I used to use. I used to use this Orbe gold lust, which is beautiful. Packaging's beautiful. The product's beautiful. The fragrance is beautiful. Like I. I could cuddle this for for, you know, memories. Yeah. Memories. It's, it's like a Relic in my house, but it's this kind of plastic is non recyclable. And it's meant to be consumed quickly, right? It's meant to be consumed within three to six weeks. Most salon products that you buy at the salon are this one. What makes it more sustainable for dip anyway? Is that my one conditioner bar? Replaces 12 of these. Wow. For me, it changes depending on hair type, but for me, I was spending you know, $52 a month just to, just to buy this stuff. And my savings with the conditioner bar, with the dip conditioner bar, which is, you know, big three ounce bar is is over $500. Which is nuts. That's incredible. And I've got here one of the conditioner bars. Yeah. It basically looks like a hockey puck to me. Mm-hmm yeah. Uh, Or maybe a large skateboard wheel to the, to the audience listening. We will, we will put this on a YouTube eventually, so you'll, they'll get to see it. but let's go over those numbers again. You. 10 bottles of shampoo or conditioner? No conditioner. Yeah. Okay. Bar lasts a long time, approximately for the size that you were showing, which looked like maybe 250 milliliter. 200. Yeah. 200, 200. Okay. Yeah. So 200 milliliter. So 2000 milliliters of conditioner replaced by one. Hockey puck, which is incredible. Like, yeah, it's crazy. It smells amazing. I haven't tried it yet. I've been waiting for this episode to go over all this stuff and then for sure. Yeah. I'll make Tik Toks and stuff. It'll be really fun, but wow. That's an amazing change. And we, I could definitely see some advertisements about. With 10 bottles next to it. Mm-hmm verse versus one bar as a comparison for people to really get the concept of, Hey, this is gonna save you a fortune. Yeah, well, it's, it's strange because people have been so burned. The, the, their third reason actually it's sustainable is that it works. Yeah. so, so it's not adding to your graveyard of sustainable products that don't work. And a, a big reason for that is that I really looked at ingredients and tried to choose high performance ingredients that, that left your hair as silky and smooth.. In the way that I expected. And what happens a lot is with, with conditioner bars, especially, that's why I always talk about it's like my Magus conditioner bar, right? Conditioner bars are they get a really bad wrap because they a lot of the times they ingredient that they use in conditioner bars. It feels conditioned in the shower, but then when you step out, you don't have that same Tactile real silky feeling. Yeah. Yeah. We've tried a couple bars and, and they're pretty good, but you're right. We're, we're excited to try your products because of the quality. So thank you really looking forward to that. I will say too, as a designer, it makes it so nice and relieving to actually design something that, that, you know, works and like you trust because face it, some of the, a lot of the times designers, you don't really like have faith in, in the product, but you're still making it look good. Right. You're trying to compete with all the other brands out there. And though I am super proud of the identity work that we did for dip. I can really like, you know, stand up for its integrity of what's inside. That's a good feeling. I agree. And that, that was my next question. Let's talk about these boxes. So very small chipboard boxes. Mm-hmm looks like about 20 point or 24 point material. C one S awesome. Totally recyclable. Easy to recycle curbside. And then just a, a piece of. Paper wrapping the product. Exactly. I mean, is that, is that all it is inside? I love this little symbol on the bottom. It just says paper result., you know, boom. Yeah. That's little funny, like tongue and cheek thing too is you know, there's so many claims and icons and things. The one that we always laugh at is like the leaping bunny, you know, it's like, who's still like testing on animals. Like it's such like an old, Yeah. Thing like these ingredients are tried and true. But yeah, it's, it's so simple. I think there's something like easy for people to mentally digest when it, it is just like a simple paper with water based ANGs water based coatings, so no oils or any of that stuff. It just feels good. yeah. And one of my favorite things about the packaging is just this little hole. We we cut in the top which allows people to smell the bar before before mangling the packaging in. I love that. So that's an access hole for smelling. Yeah. That's brilliant because how many times have you gone to a beauty aisle? And you know, the, the box looks like that because it's just all the time. Yeah. Somebody's and they, people won't buy that because they feel like it's been touched. Right. Especially in the past two years, people are extra sensitive about something that's been touched to someone else. Yeah. We should, we should put like a smell of vision or something like that. Right. You know, like smell here. I'm not a designer. Don't listen to me. that's for the user interface, all these apps that are coming out when they gotta put the smell feature on digital world. That's it? Yeah. That's it like ready player one. Have you seen that movie? yeah. so cool. So cool. Anyways, well I wanna talk about these. The bar holders, because a lot of complaints about the shampoo bars and conditioner bars are the experience in the shower or the bathtub. But I think you guys have solved that problem with these. And I don't know if you designed these, but just brilliant, simple beautiful design. How, who came up with that? Was that Jonathan or was that a, that was great really testing. I was all about doing flat lays and certain ways to drain 'em. I mean, I have a grave have so many sketches and prototypes and stuff, and although. Aesthetically. I like some of the ones that came out more we just found something that works. I mean, it was based off of some other stock ones that were made out of plastic and we just kind of challenged our, you know, our connections to, to make it in stainless steel and make it so you can wash it. Cause that was a problem we're starting to find with all. All shower things that hold soap, just get like gross film on it, you know, in sudsy. So there has to be a, an opportunity to clean it and still, and still work. So a lot of these earlier designs, although they looked cool, they didn't pass the, the wash test yeah. Right. And a big thing is that, so. So if you are in a shower that has a lot of people using it. So say you're, you're a family with two kids and everyone's using the bars. That bar never gets a chance to dry properly because the shower is getting used so often. Or if you live in a humid climate, or if you, I mean, there's so many, so, so many things, or if you are one of those people that never turns the vent on when you shower and your shower just sits, your bathroom just sits and moisture. So. The bar, the shampoo bar especially is a softer formula. And if you leave it on a wire rack or if you leave it on you know, any kind of coaster with like holes on it, eventually it'll sink into the, the coaster and it, and it's just like an unhappy experience, especially since our bar is a pricey. And I, I don't want someone to leave disappointed, you know, and there is. Thing that happens at the end of a bar where at the very end, the shampoo bar is after lots of useless, like it's, it gets softer. So at the very end you can like fold it off of this. You can take it, fold it and crush it into like a nice. It's not nice. It's the, it's the end of life of the bar. Sure. If it was a new one, you could kind of mash 'em together and then there you go. Yeah. So, so some people have written that they match that's good advice. Yeah. Yeah. So some people mash it onto the next bar. Well I'm, you know, I'm finishing up a bar right now and, and I just like to, I just like to fold it and kind of crush it back together, but you can also we have on our website, when you get to the end of your bar, you can actually. Heat it on like a very low heat and report into something small. If you have a small Silicon BA baking dish, it's, it's an easily meltable product that you can reshape to your liking, which makes me happy. I love that could you even com combine flavors or, or sense? I shouldn't say flavors, but if you, if you'd like, That we, you know, we'd love to see if someone gets creative and cooks up something completely different new. I was really impressed with your Flavor profiles or scent profiles or whatever you call them. Mimosa and sandalwood. Co-starring orange, cucumber, and vanilla. This sounds like something I want for, for breakfast. You know, this is amazing. You know, Tangerine and honey do co-starring fresh citrus, mimosa and cedarwood. Wow. Beautiful. Where did you guys come up with? All these combin? So I'll take it back to my inspiration. So, so Orbe this brand that I loved Tom Ford designed the fragrances for this, and I knew that if I needed to. You know, kind of summon people from the luxury hair care market that people want, like a symphony of fragrance. There's something to be said about when you hug someone and you, you can smell their hair or maybe it's just a creep move on my part. I don't know. That's it's research. Research. I've just been hugging people extra lately but I think people deserve and want a symphony of fragrance and fragrance is one of those hot topics that is tricky, right? Like you right now, fragrance gets a really bad rap. And, and it's because of the THS in traditional fragrance. And we looked to credo. The, the people or the, the company that's setting the gold standard for what they'll allow in their doors. And although we're not in credo. I love what they're doing as far as being like the gatekeepers of what is considered clean and unclean. And so we actually, you know, we went to RTE the big fragrance house and I explained to them what I was trying to do. And they, yeah, they built them to the fragrances, to credo standards, which helps me sleep at night, knowing that I'm not putting, you know, Tates out to, to people. In the shower that they're just like kind of, I ingesting. Right. And I've actually had customers that are, have like really horrible reactions to fragrance. Say that they tried our, our bars kind of like, you know, a little nervous about it and that they didn't get like the migraines that they typically get. The fragrance and they didn't get, you know, kind like all of that kind of like sniffly nose. So they don't, they didn't get that from our fragrances. So that has made me really happy, but that's how we came about choosing them and, and making a big profile of, of really exciting fragrances that some were unex, some were more girly, some were more kind of more towards males. And like we I think the other thing that we did that I was cool is I sat and watched how people interact with shampoo and conditioner in store. And I saw that people generally open the bottle and smell it before reading it. Yeah, that's it? Yeah. You're, you're buying with your nose first. Right? So I, I used what I saw, like real human behavior of people smelling it before they even look at any of the words on the bottle and, and was like, you know what, like let's try and make it for all hair types and give people the freedom to choose how they wanna smell, because that, I think that's how they shop. Yeah, you're right. It's like, prove it. You can put whatever you want on the box, but prove it, let me smell it. Right. Right. So anything new, exciting coming out or are you focusing on the shampoo and conditioner bars? Shampoo conditioner is like where my, my heart and soul is. Like, I love, I love them so much, but we do have some really exciting stuff coming out. One of them is some, some products just can't be done in bars. So what we're doing is I'm using dead stock plastic bottles that have been abandoned by other brands to bring some, some new stuff out there. So the first thing that we're launching and we did a small run is an enzyme spray. And this enzyme spray is formulated for hair. So if you are camping or if you're at a music festival, or if you are in the hospital and you're unable to shower, you can spray this enzyme spray in your hair and kind of like, just let. Let it dry. It's like a wet, dry shampoo essentially. And oh wow. Dimes will clean the oils out of your hair. So, because I don't amazing. I don't want people using shampoo bars in lakes and in, they don't need to use shampoo bars and the conditioner is meant for a leaving. So like, I don't want wildlife being totally exposed to all of this stuff. Fish don't have hair. They don't but like they do, that's a problem, right? yeah. Maybe they're maybe they're in the Potomac. that? Factory. But no, but the seriously, like the idea that you can just spray your hair, especially if you're some, some, one of those people that goes to like Coachella, I don't know how those people wish our, to be honest, but you can just, yeah, you we're burning man. People like you can just put it in your hair. And that's, that's something I'm like really excited to do. And we have a little bit of a tongue and cheek packaging move where we're calling it the great filled dead stock. And we have a, a Jerry bear collar, like going around the bottle that says like this, this bottle is is not new, has not been produced for this brand. I love that. Yeah. It's packaging. That's like over 20 years old, just like sitting in a warehouse ready to go. Trash, like it's so sad. It happens all the time. Like people buy an abundance to mm-hmm to, to scale, and then whatever happens, brands got a business or whatever it might be, or a trend changes like the bottles. Aren't good. Looking by any means, but we're gonna try to Polish, you know? Right. That's kind of punk rock overlay. I, yeah, I, I think that's cool. I think it's a, a cool counterculture move to what's typically done in beauty and. You know, I, we do a lot of things that are kind of against the grain as far as marketing and as far as, you know, just typical beauty stuff and And I think people kind of like it. So, so this I'm really excited to get this dead stocks up out of there. That's a totally innovative idea. I've never heard that in 25 years in packaging, so well done. Thanks. Gonna be fun. There's a lot of Relic packaging. There's a lot of stuff just to, you know, sitting in a warehouse. Hey, what about us? You know, come on guys. Great. it's literally destined for a landfill. So. If you could give it one more, you know, one last rah before, before it goes to landfill, like why not? Or take it back to refill, like our refills still in town. Mm-hmm, , she's collecting all sorts of odd ends of, of containers to, to refill mm-hmm yeah, I mean, you see it, I think especially even more in beauty, be just because, you know, we're I guess aesthetic or. You know, very concerned with, with vanity is, is the word, right? So, so, so much wasted, like usable product. And it's sad. Oh my gosh. Or have you ever, have you ever experienced if, if a product somehow a typo makes it onto the package? And then the whole Wolf run is done, you know, like, absolutely. And I've been on press checks where I've seen the mistakes made and you know, whoops, half of this is bad, you know, great. Or, you know, it's an, it's an incredible thing. I had a customer print catalogs and they spelled catalog wrong.. Yeah, that's that's a challenge. That's something that you have to recall. And they were able to recover them. Mm-hmm which was a huge savings financially and environmentally, but things happen. And this is an opportunity to be a part of the solution. So well done. Well, I, I also think that customers out there are a lot more fun than we give them credit for. So, I mean, even for something like that, you could have even slapped a PostIt note on it that just said, like this catalog's for dumies, you know, would've thought it was great and fun instead of it just, you know, right. This one didn't get trash, but I'm saying like in many cases you see stuff where stuff just gets trashed, just goes straight to a dumpster mm-hmm and I think. What's so cool about this new generation of shopper is that they have a sense of humor. You know, and I think it's taking a little bit of time for brands to like catch up with a sense of humor. And I see that you're super active on TikTok and I love, I love the TikTok humor that is out there, just like the, the way people crack jokes and it has its own language. And and you see the brands that kind of get it and you see the brands that just like don't, they don't seem to understand that it's not TV advertis. Very true. This is a different society. People are very, very smart and very the, the BS meter goes off quickly. I found, you know, right, for sure. You can't make stuff up. You can't make a claim that isn't backed up. So well done. This is exciting to see when you guys release those. Will you send, send me a picture of 'em or, or send you some? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd love to advertise for, for you. Yeah, for sure. Thanks. We also have these these cool bamboo carry cases for the bigger part. Oh yeah. I. And they're really cool. Like they lift out like this and then so beautiful inside. Cause when you're traveling, you don't want this, like, you know, inside is a removable coaster. So you can, when you travel, you can just put it in your shower, wherever you are. The only thing is like, and I'm sure you know, that just working with natural materials, like this is bamboo working with natural materials, you have kind of a lot of limitations. So I discovered when I brought, when I brought, I have a, a square one. For the shampoo and around the conditioner, I, when I brought them to our store, a local store to just show them and give them like a sneak peek, I couldn't open the round one because the heat the, the inner inside one had. Expanded and the coaster was stuck. So like Jonathan, I've been spending the past few days, soaking another set of these in water to see how the bamboo reacts. Like you have to have to go through this stuff because plastic is the best. Yeah. It's so easy to work with. Right. But then you get something like bamboo and you're like, oh, this ages differently, this, this box behaves differently. If it's in a hot car than it does, or like, than it would in Arizona than it would in Michigan or right. You know, Working with natural materials is a challenge. So we were ready to put these boxes out on the market, and then we kind of halted. We just, just so we can do some, like, we drowned them, we're drying, keeping them, I think Jonathan had a set in the oven mm-hmm and like obsession. We, we try and go through because. There's no perfect world when it comes to natural products, right? Like, or, you know, natural components. We're all natural. We're totally a mess. so I dunno why we expect anything else to behave any differently. It's part of this world that we've jumped into, right. It's You know, perfection is, is not the goal. It's you know, we're looking for you know, progress mm-hmm mm-hmm for sure. Keep it up. Yeah. So, so with these boxes, just when I do order them, and when we kind of troubleshoot how to keep them working in wet climates and hot climates, all, all at the same time, you know, we're probably gonna put in an extra order for, for the inside coaster because eventually bamboo will break and we're gonna, we. It's not my, I hate the idea of charging people for a replacement on something that they've already bought. You know what I mean? I expect to work. So I'm all, you know, and that's a weird thing that brands have to learn to, to just live with, if you're gonna use like these natural products or natural you know, components, you have to be prepared to replace stuff, cuz they're not gonna, they're not gonna last the way plastic does. Very well said very well said. So how do we buy these? Where do we go? So my favorite way for people to buy them is to go to our store locator on our website, on dip already.com and then go to the store locator and find a spot that's local to you. And if there's nothing local to you then, then order online. The reason I want people to shop in store is because the stores that we support are, are all independently owned. When you're, when you're shopping in these stores, we're okay. As the it's part of our brand is that we are, we capture higher margins when we sell direct consumer online, but we're okay. Sharing the wealth and the sales revenue with these independent store owners that are really educating people about sustainability. In their communities, like we've, we've started with zero waste stores. And actually we just launched at the end of October and we're in just under a hundred stores as of today. Wow. And, and we, I, so there's this chat online that, that people write to. And if I see that they live near a store, I, I tell them, I'm like, go buy a X, Y, Z store. It's near you. Love that partnership. Yeah. Yeah. It, you know what. So important to get people in refill stores to see that packaging, maybe one day can be the thing of the past, especially for like floor cleaner. You don't need to buy floor cleaner in a precious package, right. In a new one time. So I know that they they're big, the big drivers in these refill stores are like hand soap, laundry detergent, you know, even. Even laundry detergent. I saved so much money going into one of these refill stores. Because I buy their powdered laundry detergent, a Mason jar full of it lasts me what? Like six months. It's pretty crazy. Yeah. I'm in a, I'm in a, a household with two dirty little boys. Three. I was gonna say including that one. Yeah, but, but there. This idea of going to shop in these small stores also I, I spend a lot of time on my site, educating people about palletized goods and the hidden plastic that happens behind the scenes when you're, when you're sending stuff to big box or Amazon any sustainable brand that, you know, there's two arguments, right. They're saying, okay. But how, if you have a sustainable brand. And people isn't accessible in target or Walmart then, is it really making a difference? Right. So that's how they justify extending palletized goods over there. But I think that, I think that you can honestly have a really nice business and, and expose people to this new style of refilling if, and be true to being mostly plastic free, if you, if you support small stores, so you can find us in hair salons, which is. So exciting. Your hair salons are designed to upsell you products that you buy over and over again. And the fact that these mothers and sisters and like aunts, you know, and, and those men hair stylists too. But the, the fact that they're protecting they're embracing slow to consume products like dip is like, it's, it's a huge shift in, in mentality for salons. It's so exciting that they put us on their shelves. Like seriously, dream come true. But then but then yeah, these small refill stores, I just want people to go there and learn to live without packaging, which is hard to talk about in front of people. well we appreciate that. That's inspiring for, and I was just gonna say it's, it's more so now focusing on like the systems and like the experiences mm-hmm like, you. Anyway, so get you off. It sounds like, no, you're fine. this is your, your show. no, we, we, we love it where I hope that there's some sort of solution about the PLA like the plastic wrap around pallets. I wonder if there's something you might know better than me, you were just at a convention. Yeah, there's actually stretch, fill machines that reduce the amount of plastic on a pallet by 200% and there. Yeah. Which is awesome, but there's also a company called TRX that recycles that stuff. And that's becoming very common and it's, it's, it's exciting. I'm amazed by that they've recycled over a billion pounds of that plastic. That's amazing in like seven years, it's an, it's a beautiful thing. And people are using it for their, their decks or their, their benches or things like that. That will last 30 years. So to me, that's, that's awesome. Right. But we just need to get you know, companies to recycle that. Right. That's that's, that's the trickiest part, I think yeah, but I think everyone's starting to pay attention now. Yeah. Right. It's it's not something that's just for, you know the fringe eco environmentalist anymore. It's forever. I agree. Like Jonathan was saying it's a system. You have to learn a new system. Mm-hmm you know, something that you used to throw in the garbage, wait a. Let's divert that over here. Oh wait, we don't need to use that. We can use this. So it's, we're changing behaviors, which as we all know is the most difficult thing to do. But the intentions are positive. We're not doing this just for money. We want to be uh, make the world a better place for our kids and their kids. Right. Absolutely. You know, I want, I want my children's children to be able to find seashells, you know, I want them to be able to play and we live on a, on a little swimming lake. That the community keeps very clean and like goes above and beyond. We, you know, we all volunteer to, to make sure it's, it stays beautiful. And you know, there's lots of rules about like, you can't use a lot of fertilizer on your lawn cause it goes right in, you know, like there, everyone has like clean septics to make sure it doesn't and nothing hurts the wildlife. And we're, we're very in touch with that. Especially when we're, we're coming up with new ideas and new and new products. I love. Well, thank you guys for being on. I'd like to have you on again and, and we'll go over your progress in six months. If, if you, if you'd come on again, that'd be great. Yeah, of course. No, it fun. We really enjoyed this and we're always watching your, your cool content online. thank you so much. And thank you, Berg, Aurora for sponsoring this podcast. If you're listening, make sure you subscribe. And so you don't miss the next episode. If you give us a review, let me know you did, and I'll send you some stickers like this. Thank you guys. Really appreciate. Yeah, us too. Thank you. Have a good one.