Unilever Prestige is making big advancements / Mr. Frederic Dreux

https://www.unilever.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/frederic-dreux-0438402/
https://usa.renskincare.com/products/clean-screen-mineral-spf-30-mattifying-face-sunscreen

It was an honor to speak with Mr. Frederic Dreux from Unilever Prestige brands about all of their innovations in sustainable packaging! 

https://www.hourglasscosmetics.com/
https://www.dermalogica.com/collections/daily-skin-health

Are you ready for plastic saches to be replaced by aluminium? 
What is the future of sustainable packaging? 
How will PCR affect all packaging? 

Check out our sponsor Orora Packaging Solutions 
https://ororapackagingsolutions.com/

Check out our sponsor this month: 
https://smartsolve.com/

https://specright.com/ 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1329820053/ref=as_sl_pc_qf_sp_asin_til?tag=corygat

https://www.linkedin.com/in/cory-connors/

I'm here to help you make your packaging more sustainable! Reach out today and I'll get back to you asap.

This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022.

Transcript

Cory Connors: 0:31

Welcome to sustainable packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guest is my friend, Mr. Frederic Dreux , who is the global packaging and R and D leader at Unilever prestige brands. Hey Frederic. Frederic Dreux: Hi Corey. Nice. Talk to you again, and very happy to be with you today. Thank you, sir. I am totally excited about today's conversation. This might turn into part one, a part two of two podcasts which is fine because we have so much to talk about. But Unilever is an amazing company. Over 400 beauty brands or brands, I should say that under your umbrella and the fact that you are willing to discuss those today with us is very exciting. So thank you. Let's talk. Yeah. Let's talk about your, your background. How did you get into sustainable?

Frederic Dreux: 1:24

Well, I think it's fair to say that , I fall into it basically roughly 20 years ago. I started in package. Starting with an academic university backgrounds already related to packaging in a way, but a bit more fun. And I wanted something very very applied something which I can work during the day. And when I go to the shopping, seeing my product on shelf, you know, it's something, I think every packaging people will understand me. There is this moment when you have your first project and you see it. That's you, you fall in love with packaging with that, but your question is also about sustainable packaging, you know? Probably doing packaging in Unilever is a good place to fall in love with sustainable packaging and to put into it because the the, the, the target we set to our self already for many, many years to try to do better in this space is really energizing, let's say. And of course it starts with the work that you are doing and where you are doing. But there is always a part of your personal story too. So if you don't mind, I have a very, very short story to explain why sustainable packaging is so important for me. I started my career in union, never had the chance to do different category and you need ever from ice cream, through food and finally omen personal care. So a lot of different challenges, different angle to approach things, et cetera. And the. The first category I was working for, in fact, working, even in the factory was ice cream. And later on, of course, when I got my. She like, I scream of course. And when there is a lot of selling point where we sell ice cream and she recognized the logo and it's, so it's such a moment when your daughters, this is, daddy's ice cream and you love this. And it's not the same feeling when she spot a packaging of ice cream, outside of the salon, the same beach, which has the logo of your company or that this is ice cream from that. And this moment. This is not what I want to do. I want to do things differently. I want to have my packaging for the first moment of joy. When she recognized it and taste the ice cream, I need the ice cream. When we are walking on the beach and we see it in your, in your environment. So this moment is one of the moment that makes you sick. I want to go the extra mile and find better solution or, and maybe being a bit more than passionate, but sometime a bit activist in this space.

Cory Connors: 3:48

Absolutely the case for me as well, when I had or my wife had our kids it was. Amplified, I would say is the word, everything I thought about sustainability became a thousand times more important. And that's part of the impetus of this podcast and the work I do every day to spread the message about sustainability and how we can. Especially brands can improve our packaging to be more environmentally friendly.

Frederic Dreux: 4:17

I don't want touching you like that. It's also creating a sense of urgency. You want to solve things, but with the right solution and try things to make it faster, better, let's say. And I'm very happy that I'm working on for prestige, for example, because this is really a space where the brand. Really agile, like, like startup, but with this power, which they, they can change something in the very driven by their purpose. So this space where I am right now, I could not dream about a better place to, to try to make these sustainable packaging.

Cory Connors: 4:48

It's a, it's an amazing opportunity. At Unilever prestige, you're making great strides towards sustainable packaging. Some of the samples you sent that, that we will talk about today blew me away. I've never seen him before, and I've been doing this for 25 years. I'm thrilled. Can you speak to your role there and what, what what's going on at, at, you know,

Frederic Dreux: 5:11

Yeah. So as, as I mentioned, you need ever committed very, very early to a packaging commitment to try to make it better, more sustainable. We even raise the bar even more by expanding those those commitments few future last year, even. And and that I like also because expanding the commitment from from the planet also to the people. So, and that's something I connect quite strongly. It's, it's quite important for me and using the brand because like, like every company, we want our brand to be winning on the market and we want to delight our consumer, which I, I understand you have been delighted by the packaging. So we want to delight our consumer, but we also want our brand to be a force for good something that can change and that can improve the life. So not only the planet impact, but also the social impact. So, and this is done, I believe strongly, and we believe he's done. Purpose of the brand and the innovation that in which he transformed to the market. So about my role itself, I like to seek about myself, about the connector, the connector with a bit of technical background. It's a sale, of course, so I can connect the right team together. Right. Collector is probably the, if I have to say one word is connector it's collecting the brand person. And each brand has its different purples or so that you need to respect and that you need to nurture and connecting these brand purples with meaningful innovation opportunities. So attracting those opportunities, connecting them together with something which is meaningful for the brand and meaningful for the consumer. I also led to it, but it's also connecting. We'll try reactivity and agility of prestige brands, for example, with the power of a unique era D so I'm at this kind of self-help point connecting those two together, which is really something I'm enjoying everyday, basically. And it's like bringing best work together. And also the part of the connection . Very important for me is the connection. I play with the external world, with the supplier, with the partner, with the raw material , because you realize very, very early that you need this network, the solution, you don't find them always on your own. On the contrary, you need to work with people, with partners to find a solution. That's, that's very important for me. And the role of connecting takes only sets when you connect to the external. And the last part of the role, which again, I hope a lot of packaging people, we recognized back at him when it comes to sustainability is quite often. Something I say is the visible part of the iceberg because, because it's so concrete, so visible, unfortunately, sometime that it crystallized quite a lot of sustainable topic, but when you have understand them and when you start to act on, on them for packaging or shoe packaging, you have almost a duty to expand this to other topics. So I try to be also a door through packaging and to connect all the topics on sustainability. Impacting the impact on social, on, on people that et cetera, through packaging and expanding that outside of packaging also. So connector is probably the one word that described my role into that.

Cory Connors: 8:16

Well, you're in, you're doing an amazing job at it, sir. I I'm totally impressed. And you're right. It's not just what we're doing to improve packaging, but it's how are we sustaining the earth? How are we cleaning up messes made in the past? How are we reducing the amount of electricity needed or water needed or you know reducing greenhouse gases there, there's all of these things that, that are. Important to this world of sustainability that we need to, to focus on. But definitely

Frederic Dreux: 8:49

you just mentioned one point important, you say restoring and that's that's, that's something also. I pretty much I was reenergized, which was the targets when Unilever went beyond the initial commitment on packaging, because indeed it was recognizing that. After the first 10 years that we were pursuing offers the offers commitments we, the new leadership, let's say, for example, Tata with more commitments. And one of the signal that was sent to us primarily was it's no longer the time to just reduce or to try to minimize the impact that what we are doing, but we are also to restore or to repair the environment. Unfortunately, the planet is a bit beyond already what what could have taken from it, which means that it's important to, to not only try to minimize, but to also try to repair as much as we can resolve reds and resolve.

Cory Connors: 9:45

Yeah. Just like the story you told about your daughter picking up the wrapper on the beach. It's so it's so critical that we teach them that that's important and that we participate with them to do those kinds of beach cleanups and. Parking lot cleanups or whatever the case may be. But yeah, well done. It's just, it's exciting. I'm, I'm energized about what's happening in the world of sustainable packaging and sustainability and environmental movements. Things are, are going in the right direction. I think of course we could do better, but we're, we're doing in my opinion, lots of very positive things. So I want to talk to you about some of the specifics because you guys have so much force behind you and so much knowledge that you can share with the people that will be listening to this podcast. Can you tell us why is it important to set a sustainability goal for your.

Frederic Dreux: 10:38

Sure. I think it starts, it's important for two things for yourself, let's say, or as a company or as an individual within this company, but also for the outside world. So for yourself, it's quite easy to understand, basically, it's it's setting up an ambition that you want to achieve. And I would say from this point of view setting something, which is difficult to it it's very important. I remember when, when the last commitment, the last update on the commitment where were released. I remember that our CEO, for example, it was mentioning. We don't know if we can achieve all of that, but this is not the point. The point is this is what needs to be done. And now we need to work to try to go as close as that, or even beyond that, because that's what needs to be done. So it's not the moment to think about, can we do it or not? It's how do we do it basically like that? Because it's a, it's, it's very important to, it's very challenging and you need to be challenging yourself. So the first element is indeed to allow to challenge yourself. Okay. To measure your progress against stocking, right. The other thing is also the signal you sent outside. Basically you are willing to go the extra mile on this kind of thing. And it's a, it's the call that you said to, to support the call that you send to your partners, to the retailers, to, even to the consumer, even spending to, to embrace this journey with. Again, it's not something that you can achieve alone. So recognizing that when you have such an important target or when you set so, so difficult target for yourself, you realize very quickly that you need others to join you to succeed. And and this is for me the, the moment where start to connect with the extent I world, which is very, very important and sending those important message. Which are the commitment is very important. These things said commitment is only commitments in a way. And for me all it's sense when we are able to transform that concretely and, and the best moment when you transform that concretely is when you bring that into the end of the costumer. Yes. And it's, it's so important. It means that not only you, you need to bring the solution . But you need also to explain what you are doing and why you are doing it. And I think in prestige, we try to bring that to the end of the consumers, to bring the commitment concretely in the end of the consumers, through the experience that we deliver to them, with our packaging and with our product. And that's, that's the moment where you say, wow, we have done something till again, because it's in the end of the consumer. Cory Connors: Yes, it's exciting set and it's very necessary. Like you said, create a stretch goal, you know, where, how far can we push it and how, how much more sustainable can we be on, on that note? I want to talk about. Hi, post-consumer recycled material. Is that the answer to plastic sustainable packaging? I'm always careful to, to use an expression like Z answer. I don't believe that there is one answer that fix everything. Unfortunately, we make our life very easy and our job very easy, but it's not, it's not the case. I think one sentence that I, I. I I use a lot is that this is there's no silver bullet. When it comes to sustainability, there is a, a sambar solution and it's about finding the right solution for the right pack for the right geography, for the right markets. It's, it's, it's a big challenge. It's difficult, but this. It's even more trouble when you believe that you have the solution because you most likely be wrong. So it's part of the solution. Why? Because using, I leave out of post-consumer recycled material in plastic, but also for automatic. Yeah, it's definitely part of the solution because you keep reusing the same resource. You give a second life, you take something out of the waste basically to make it a single life and to give back life. So basically we avoid extraction of new resources. At the same time we use the carbon footprint of what you are doing most of the time. When you start to reuse something, for sure, you can, you cannot be wrong from this point of view. And I think that's a, that's very important to keep reusing the resource, minimizing the new resource we put in the system and start by using the resource that we have already created an integrated the system. I'm very convinced about circular economy because of that. And and it's, it's also, when you think about circular economy and recycled plastic is over. Concrete example of that. It's again about the partnership and inter-dependence of the. One thing I like about it is that when you do something positive in a secular academic context, you in cascade, you will create also positive and serve the loop, which by the way, at some point we'd come back to you as an inset, even better. So we follow if I'm using lot of recycled plastic, for example I will create a demand and that will create the economical condition for the recycling. An economical model to sell the recycled plastic. When he's doing that, he's going to be able to recycle more and he will ask me as a brand owner, by the way, if you want me to have more material for you, you need to make sure that your packaging even more designed for me and make my life easier to recycle it. So it's an incentive for me to design even further for recycling. And this circular context, I think makes so much chasing them of the partnership in India interaction between the different partner of the.

Cory Connors: 16:36

I agree a hundred percent. That is the key to all of this is making this material valuable so that the recyclers will want to participate in this concept. A, you sent me some beautiful samples. This is a Ren clean skincare, and it has a beautiful package. And the, you mentioned the lid or the cap is. Gray instead of white.

Frederic Dreux: 17:04

This is a, this is one of the first tube that we launched already a few years ago. And this cap is a hundred percent PCR. The grade that you see is the color of the PCR. There's no master. And sensing for the tube. You can see that under the IML, there is also a gray color because that's the color of the PCR. So for technical reason, we have only 50% in the tube, but we have a hundred percent in the capsule, very high percentage of PCR over all in the tube. And instead of trying to hide it, we say, why are you not showing it? Because we should be proud about using PCR. So we use it and you can see that the way we integrate it is basically that. Combined a flashy yellow color, basically, which is fine for a product like that because it's an SPF together with the gray and it fits well together. And at the end you don't necessarily have to hide it. Basically you can

Cory Connors: 17:54

embrace it. I think it's stunning. And, and that's one thing a lot of people talk about on the show is, oh, sustainable packaging. Maybe it doesn't look as nice. Well, I, I disagree. It can be. And especially when you explain to the consumer that this is gray because it's recycled and it's made from high PCR. That is so that's an attraction that, that your, your consumer will appreciate. If they're, if they're like you and me.

Frederic Dreux: 18:27

I need to improve. Also it's credible, it's approved. You are using PCR PCR. Most of the PCR, whether we want it or not is great. And this is a proof that you are using PCR. You show it.

Cory Connors: 18:40

And this, this sample also came in a very interesting box and this box is a reusable box called books, B O O X. Can you, can you speak to that? It's a really cool design. It's something

Frederic Dreux: 18:57

that has been put in place more recently. Indeed. And ran is a, is a, the, the, the, the brand that he's doing that for, for, in orange, with. With books. So basically, you know, that the explosion of e-commerce, for example, especially under the COVID condition has created quite some tension on the, on the corrugated, for example, in term of sourcing, but also in term of recycling it,

Cory Connors: 19:20

I can feel that in my bones. Yes. That's all I've been dealing with for the last two years. Yes.

Frederic Dreux: 19:27

And most of the time when you have to, when you have to basically get rid of. Corrugated at your place. For example, you realize that they are still very, very good and they could go also treat etc. So books is pushing a bit, the model into that by having returnable boxes that can be used many, many times. And basically what you do is that once. Once you got your, your product safely at home, you can fold completely this. And there is a, there is a labored already on it that you can just put it back into the, the post. And and basically it's being reused. So books will then check it, reconditioned it, eventually clean it if it's needed, but you can see it's done with the material, which is easy. And can we send that? And it will come back to us for the next shipment basically. And there, there is a high number of return that you can do that. I used also saving resources. As we mentioned before, it's an also way to use reusable and returnable shippers.

Cory Connors: 20:24

I th I think it's brilliant and it's I, it could be used probably hundreds of times. Plastic corrugated is so strong and so durable, and it's just got this real neat 3m mushroom Closure. That's just really strong that that material I know from testing myself as is incredible.

Frederic Dreux: 20:43

And if you don't mind, I want to take the opportunity to say a great thanks to the REN team, which is quite pioneering, this kind of solution quite often. So. Big big to Nicola.

Cory Connors: 20:57

Well, big shout out to all these teams from, from these Unilever prestige brands. It's exciting. It's I'm so impressed with the samples that you sent and we're only touching the tip of the iceberg. He

Frederic Dreux: 21:10

then each brand as a different cycle, different purples, but all align in center direction. There is one common point with all the people working in this brand, working in packaging, or in goes a function, the passion, they are all passionate about that. That's why we, we, we go, we try to go the extra mile in this,

Cory Connors: 21:27

right. Well, and that leads us right to the next brand, which is a Dermalogica which is this beautiful container. It, I believe it's an Aptar brand. The pump pump is yeah, all the same material, a hundred percent all the way through

Frederic Dreux: 21:45

not only the bone, but the Butler. So. This is a great example of something, which I think the, the cosmetic industry in general, but wider than the cosmetic can be proud. One of the key element, key aspect for recyclability is to try to simplify our work by making our packaging window metal. This is so, so important. And of course, so far we were using multiple material because we need different property for different . So it was. Very easy and not an easy shift. And I think poop like this one are quite a symbol of the progress that has been made in this space. There is a lot, a lot of packaging and believe me, when I say. Five years, or even sometimes three years ago, when we were trying to find solution, the number of people you could hear saying it's not possible. And there is nothing more than a, like when somebody studying me is not possible by the way, that's for me or the reason to do it almost. And and I'm very, very glad that we we see this change in Aptar is one of the supply, one of the first one to bring it to the market. This is a full mono matter your pump. And because the bottle is also P material, the full pack, the pump, plus the bottle is full mono material PE. So it's going in the same stream. One thing which is also very interesting about this this pump is that there is something I like about systemically when it's coming with an extra benefit. And in this case the extraordinary fit is also coming from the design. From the modality of it, let's say, but also from the fact that this pump is e-commerce is Fedex certified. Why is it important? Because we know that this has been a big shift in our big shift in our industry, that more and more packaging, one more product are being diverse requests. And this is a source of waste, a big source of waste when your packaging cannot be that. So having a port, which is also a statics is also very important. The trick is that when you are in locked position, better can freely turn and basically can take any shock because basically it will not resist to the shock, but absorb by turning and and then when you want to use the pump, you just unlock it with the. White a white ring at any position for you, and you can lock it back by the way, when you travel, for example. So this, this is extra benefits for me, which I think is very very, very interesting for this back on top of the sustainability. But if you, but very proud of this one, I don't want to forget that these bottles is also made with 50% PCR. Cory Connors: Oh, wow. Another benefit. So oftentimes you'll receive a pump like this. I'm holding up a, if you're listening, I'm holding up a plastic pump, a 500 milliliter, a beautiful design. And it comes with tape all over the top because you know, that that's how they've had to do things because they've had so many issues with the pumps breaking or this and that. But what you're saying is this is lockable and won't be affected by movement, which is I've received this just like this in a, in a brown corrugated box and with very minimal materials inside it was actually. These airway. Paper airbags, which I highly recommend. They are a great product, but beautiful. Just that's this is next level sustainability stuff. And I'm so I've been so excited about this show for so long, because of all these topics you were mentioning, people are saying sustainability can be sometimes difficult to combine with beauty. It's a car. I don't think anybody can say that this bottle is not

Cory Connors: 25:29

beautiful. It's stunning. I'm excited to, to use that product. And it's just , they're a great company. I think they're based out of California, if I understand.

Frederic Dreux: 25:40

Yes, yes, very great company. Let's not forget that the packaging is still at the service. Of the product insight and the product is for testing,

Cory Connors: 25:48

believing. Yeah. A great point here where we're, we're just talking about the shells of these amazing products. Excellent. Well, I want to talk about something different. Want to talk about refillable packaging? Do you think refillable packaging will have a, a large part in the sustainability?

Frederic Dreux: 26:07

I think it it's already, as a large part, we have seen in the last in the last year is a lot of change of behavior. A lot of attempt to, so there is a lot of pilot in this space. I'm not sure if we have, I don't think we have reached a maturity yet into that. And that's why there is still a lot of trial and error, but it's very important to, to try. So there is, there is many things happening there. I'm convinced that we feel is as, is definitely a big part of the insource wants to meet you because by definition, when you, we feel when you reuse, you immediately reduce the amount of material that you will use. It's also a, an interesting way to be able to. Make your primary packaging a bit more than just the packaging, something that you want to keep the representative meant of potential elevation of your packaging. That becomes a more robust object. Something that you want to keep a reason to keep it is because the object is more beauty, food, et cetera, and that you start to refill it for the convenience of it. And I think that's, that's very important. And this comes together with what is the extraordinary fit that refill can bring. So we feed in itself is a benefit for sustainability, but I think the, the nicest example I've seen on the market, which brings with into a different lever is when there is an extraordinary feat. When the object is really something you want to keep, and there is something more you can do with it. I will come back quickly to the. But I want to use the example of fragrance, where we see a lot of refill. There's almost not any new launch in fragrance at the moment, which is not coming with the refill option. And why is that? Because you have full, beautiful perfume, packaging bottle, et cetera, which are almost for some of them. Art object. Okay. I can say, I agree. And you think about it when it's empty. What I do is it's, it feels bad. That's why there is a lot of collecting them, even knowing you have the possibility to refill them. And I can say that freely because we don't have any fragrance business, but it's something which I can see a big shift in, in, in fragrance from this point of view where this element of keeping the package, we feeling it is really really visitor and In this period, we also try to find with refill extra benefits that can come through refill. And indeed the pallet naked for four glass that we did recently is stepping into that. So that's the sample. I think we, we sent you in this case it was, it was starting with a very interesting process. You, you may know that makeup artist that tends to do their own palette of clothes a bit like, like a pager. And usually the way it works is that they have little Godette of kudos that are magnets, for example, or they stick it onto, onto a pallet. And we said, how can we replicate that? And our glasses of bread that I love is probably this is one of them. Favorite project so far in the imprecision big thanks to Jennifer and to Karisa cause they did that this project brilliantly, I think. And, and, and what we did with that is we wanted to do something on Richfield for , which is different than what has been done so far. There is other, we feel pallet on the market, but we wanted to start from this artist makeup concept first, because it gives us to the refill, how many customers. Buying a pallet with five colors, for example, and they are finishing one or two because basically that's the two that you are using often. And the pallet is, is basically cannot be used anymore. You throw big of the product musically because you need to buy a new palliate again. So we feel bring already a solution to that because you can change the color which is finished and keep using the other one. And those are the same, which is very interesting for me also. This is allowing the customer to do his own mics right at that to his own skin tone. So this is, there is an element of inclusive VT into that because you can serve much more different customers and, and answer different needs of the consumers in, in a different way. So refill is basically. Allowing you to do something more personalized for the consumer. And that's the extra benefit that I like to a, when we do sustainability into packaging is beauty. Food is, is becoming an object. The, the little color Godette is food aluminium, anodized to not prevent the recyclability of it. So even the color is good. Basically he sees that the dice are not preventing the resection.

Cory Connors: 30:36

So for those of you listening, I'm holding up a metal probably aluminum beautiful designed eye shadow case with five empty slots and a mirror above on the upper flap. That is just beautiful. Something anyone would be proud to own. And then what they provide are the. Inserts with each eye shadow shade, and here's this, here's a stack of different options. Frederic sent me five which my wife and daughter are excited to steal from me immediately following this show. But they are just beautiful colors. And to me, , this kind of innovation is. Absolutely necessary because in the past, this would have just come full of the five colors. And when you were done with the two that you like, you toss it and you buy another one which is unnecessary waste. This is a brilliant solution. Well done.

Frederic Dreux: 31:38

Please the so you can see, we are not using magnets to, to to, to, it's just a system of clip of the aluminum godets in a plastic frame. The plastic friend is the only plastic that we have in this bag, but you can see that the plastic fan is black and it's PCR also. Wow. So except the except for the of the colorant, the black Corona inside it's only PCR into it. So full PCR, et cetera, current that's

Cory Connors: 32:08

amazing. Well done. Kudos to you and the team at hourglass. And I don't, is that the brand or is that the company?

Frederic Dreux: 32:17

That's the company yet? Hourglass cosmetics and You, you may. I I'm, if I, if I can, I like something that they have done, they just receive a very nice price of innovative company. Also and one of the innovation, the launch was called is called red zero. It's the first lipstick without insect based coming in. Hmm. So you may not know most of the people may not know, but most of the lipstick, the red lipstick is coming from crushed insects and especially female of these insects. By the way, I had no idea that blast is the first brand who has brought a red zero. So a red lipstick without insects into that really true to the purpose. I was talking about the purpose of the bread. The bread purpose for our glass is really a link to cruelty-free and and they got in this case. A good proof of how you can really bring completely destructive innovation if you are truly true to your purpose basic.

Cory Connors: 33:12

Wow. That's it. I had no idea that they crushed up bugs and insects for this kind of thing. So that's, that's news to me, but well done that they have figured out an alternative to that because it sounds. Unnecessary, I guess

Frederic Dreux: 33:30

is the name of the

Cory Connors: 33:31

product red zero. I'll add that in the notes. Well, Frederick, do you have a funny story for us or something that you can tell us about a good memory you have in the sustainable packaging world?

Frederic Dreux: 33:43

Yes. And for that, I will use, I think, a sample that you receive also in the books from. This is something I've been pursuing a lot. And, and I mentioned so not. So there is this one, but there is also the, also one. Yes. This one, this one is an ALS packaging. And I mentioned a bit earlier that, so there's nothing more than I like when people are telling me something is impossible and I have been looking also in my previous role in Unilever at technologies about molecular recycling. So basically something that people sometimes call advanced recycling, but I don't like so much this term. I prefer feedstock recycling. Somebody could add on recycling because it's effectively cutting the plastic molecules back into their initial building blocks. And for many years, technology. Lab proven, let's say, but people were saying, it's not possible to launch it at scale because too expensive. It will not work. It's cetera. And it works. And it's on the market. And this packaging that you have in wired right now is made out of material coming from those new recycling technology. And, and this for me is a symbol that when you want something, when you truly believe in something. You, you need to, to, to stick to it. And you need to find the right way because sometime it's not, you don't have the right approach first time, et cetera, you need to find the right way. You need to find the right partner in this case, kudos , to service, for example and to to the people who believe in this technology, basically, because this new technology, this new family of recycling technology, which is also something that brands need to. Not only we, we when we were talking about the impact of using recycled content for plastic, for example, you can you can take it as a fact, but you can also try to support sings that will make the plastic even better recycled plastic and even better quality. And this technology, although to regenerate. In the Virgin properties like life equity, like if it was done in Vietnam and not only, it's interesting from the output point of view, it's also interesting in the ways that it can treat, because this can be done with plastic packaging that currently are very difficult. In traditional mechanical recycling. So from this point of view, you bring something on the market, which is completing already something which is existing. So you top up basically with more, it's not to replace it on the contrary is to complete it. And to top up, and this kind of thing is very, very important for me. And you can see that from something which. Meant to be impossible a few years ago, not there is a lot of production being built as we speak around those technologies.

Cory Connors: 36:18

It's a beautiful pump. And what I'm looking at is a clear material. I cannot read the number on it. But it is recyclable and made from recycled material, which is the, the goal here.

Frederic Dreux: 36:31

Yeah. And we still have to use mass violence for that at the moment. But that's, that means that at the beginning of the process, the equivalent waste as waste weight mass has been reprocessed to be able to produce that. And you can see the transparent part of the spec are also making these decisions.

Cory Connors: 36:49

That's beautiful. Yeah,

Frederic Dreux: 36:51

of course. I want to name the partner actor again, in this one term, which took the leap of face also to produce these back also with us.

Cory Connors: 37:00

Yeah. They've been on the podcast before. I was absolutely impressed with them. And just amazing group of people. How about, how about this? The small,

Frederic Dreux: 37:09

this one is one of my favorite two. This one is about bringing a different something experienced to the consumer. So as you know most of the sampling is done with session. For example, and session can be can be a need in some region for, for, for product and to reach the right price point that population can afford to bring the hygiene that they are. But when it comes to free, something is a bit disturbing to me. Single use session plastic which are used for very short time sometime, which are a bit lost or not very used and also with quite a messy experience sometime. And what we wanted to do with readiness to provide a new soaking expense. So I'm not saying it's like for, like, for session, because you can imagine we are not talking about the same cost that we wanted to have something that the consumer can use. So a mini tube that can be recycled. So. I'd been young. Now it's a hundred percent recycled and in yellow, 95%, post-consumer 5%, pre-consumer but a hundred percent recycled and young to reduce the carbon footprint and the extraction of new materials. So not in this case, you can see that the noser, you can break off. And when you turn back the nozel , you can recruit your pack. So it's not, not a complete resale. It's not something that you screw. But for example, when you are a consumer and you want to test the product of a few days, which is sometimes difficult music, a session, because you will open the stash and it's going to be messy. You, you drop the session in the beam. In this case, you can break the nose, then take the product, put one of those on your face. Close it. Yeah, and leave it like that on the sink for the next few days, so that you can test the product over a few days. So not only you, you have a sample format, which is more sustainable, but it's also a better experience for the customer and the true way to test the product. Because at the end, what you want to do when you sample , you want people to truly test your formula, your product. And it's very difficult to say with one try, you are convinced you have the, to. Over a few days and really see the effect on your face.

Cory Connors: 39:14

This is called Ren clean skincare. That's R E N and it's the brand ever calm redness relief serum. And it's a beautiful alternative to a sachet. I totally impressed with this. I've never seen this before and well done

Frederic Dreux: 39:31

this. This is not possible without partners. So the partner in this case is two backs in Austria.

Cory Connors: 39:37

I'll have to get that name from you. And we'll include that in the show notes. This is amazing. Absolutely incredible. What, what do you think is the future? Is this, is this, are we looking at the future here or do you have, do you have visions on new innovations coming?

Frederic Dreux: 39:54

It's it's very difficult to say. First I cannot stay since which are not a lot to sit. I see that there is, there is a combination of who sings me. She's out. For example if you want to check, what is the future? Is it start with what is not possible today? That will be possible tomorrow. If you like, many of the things you have today in the show were not possible a few years ago, for example. So if I could time travel, I would like to see in two years time where we will be with paper-based packaging, but truly people, paper based packaging, so things that can be recycled, but in paper stream. So how to other, you really keep or can you package liquid in paper? And paper that can be recycled in the paper stream. And in this case also also form of material or where do we source the new material that we're going to use in the future? We know that fossil feedstock is no longer an option. We need to go away from that. So we can, we can recycle it more. For example, maybe the land fill of today will become our mind of tomorrow, where we can extract the resources that we have been using for a while that we put in land fill for no reason. And that we can extract again. The technology that we have, like, like the chemical recycling or the molecular recycling that we mentioned before will be technology that can be used to recycle this material that has been forgotten. You don't feel that plastic valuable feedstock, for example. So that's, I would like to see that in the future. And of course I would like to see our refill and our consumer habits. We'll we'll keep ever. Creating units that we will have to answer as packager with new material, but I'm sure of one thing, whatever we bring new on the market, we'll be more respectful of the planet and more respectful of.

Cory Connors: 41:45

Yes well said. Wow. I love that. Thank you, sir. That is perfect. And what a great way to end the show. How can people get in touch with you? What's the best way? Well,

Frederic Dreux: 41:58

even though I'm not, I'm not every day looking at it is a good way also because I'm, I'm when I see something interesting, especially from our brand and I'm trying to share the news basically. I also encourage people to have a look at. The different social media from our brands. When we do, when I think it's very important when you engage on sustainability, whether it's packaging or not, by the way, when some formulation or even action you do on social, a social impact. For example, it's also important to share the journey with people and to explain what you are doing and why you are doing it. So our brain are really trying to bring that on social media, for example, and on their website. So do not. You need ever website itself. It's a very good place to check what we are doing and how we are doing versus our commitment, but also concrete action that are coming to life on the market too. I mean, again, very important is not only the commitment, but what we put in the end of our pools humor. That's what you see also on social media and on the.

Cory Connors: 42:56

Excellent. Thank you so much, Frederick. I appreciate you. Thank you, Unilever prestige for allowing us to have this show and this, all of the samples. Thank you. Landsberg Aurora for sponsoring another episode of sustainable packaging with Corey Conners. If you're listening, please take a minute to subscribe and give us a review. We really appreciate that. Thank you so much, Frederick. Thanks.

Frederic Dreux: 43:21

Thanks everybody for listening.

Cory Connors: 43:23

We'll hope to have hope to have you again soon, sir. Thank you. Pleasure.