Can you solve the sustainable packaging puzzle? Melanie Larkins

https://www.linkedin.com/in/melanielarkins/
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Do you watch out for the inks and paints used in your packaging? 
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Transcript

Cory Connors: 0:34

Welcome to sustainable packaging with Cory Connors . I'm very excited about my guest today. Her name is Melanie Larkins and she is a sustainability product manager. Hi Melanie, how are you? Hi, Corey. I'm good. How are you doing good. Thank you so much for taking some time for us today. You have several jobs and a very diverse amount of really impressive titles. So I'd like to kind of. Touch on each of them as, as we go through the show. I think you can add a lot of value to the audience here. But I'd like to start with your background kind of how you ended up where you are now, and then go into the, the Hughes skincare products that you that company that.

Melanie Larkins: 1:17

Cool. Thanks, Corey. So I think my journey with sustainability has been a really interesting one. And I would say I really got started back in high school. I took this AP environmental science class because I needed to take it to AP or something. And I was like, I'm just going to try that.'cause I had time I'd taken as much chemistry as I possibly could. And so I had to try something new. I said, okay, I'll try that. And you know, we're out there with the soil and testing water and doing all of these like very interesting earthy things, science things, and I really liked it. Okay. So after high school, I did not think I would continue and environmental things. Exactly. But a couple of things happened first. I went to this amazing island in the middle of nowhere in Canada, in British Columbia. And I spent most of the summer, there was my friend and her family that have had this amazing, like eco resort type of village thing there with Cobb housed is totally off the grid, organic farm, everyone who would like help out. And it was really like, changed everything. I had an apple off the tree for the first time harvested, like all these cool things we had to move, you know, composting toilets. And this is, you know, 25 years ago. As nice as they are now. And it was like amazing. And the water was so clean. The air was so clean. You could see so many stars at night and it. Really started sparking more of an interest, I think in wanting to go deeper into understanding how this all functions together. I had done camping trips in the past, but this was like something very different. Then I wanted to study abroad in college, which people probably think, what does that have to do at all with sustainability? But here's the thing is that UC Berkeley, at least back then you had to pick a major before you could study. And I was undeclared until, you know, halfway through my sophomore year and I thought, okay, I've got to pick something. So I T I was taking different classes. I tried to nutrition . I said, no, I tried to poly sci political science. No. All of the sciences were impacted. So you had like a thousand people in a lecture hall. And I said, no, I don't want that. But I took this class on global development. And this teacher forever changed, like the path of my whole life. I was just taking it to try to figure out a major to go to Spain. And now 20 years later, this is what I am doing. Yeah, I started learning about the world bank and global development and you know, farming in Kenya or just so many different things that I didn't even think about. And. Being in Berkeley, especially really impacted how I, how I understood my choices, making a difference on the world. So understanding that the clothes that I buy can affect someone else's life. If they're using labor that's. Not positive or the fact that I'm eating certain things can disrupt someone else's life, a half a world away. So that's kind of led me on this path and I've done different things. You know, I was at like an eco magazine back in the day and then a lot of different apps. And now I've been in the corporate world with sustainability for the last 10 years. More or less. And then yeah, just launched the skincare line. So yeah, it's just kind of been. Growing and expanding over the last, let's say 20 plus years of my life and the industry itself has changed a lot, which is interesting and exciting.

Cory Connors: 4:50

I totally agree. It seems to be changing every day and absolutely important to talk about how. Backgrounds and our experiences and the things we've tried and things that we failed at and the things that have been successful lead us to where we are with sustainability. You know, some people I talked to don't really know much about it. Some people like us are totally fanatics and want to make a huge difference in the world. So well done. And it sounds like you've got that right background. Can you speak to your skincare line? It's called huge.

Melanie Larkins: 5:23

Yeah. So the, so the, I have a larger company called breath to dream, and then Hues the actual skincare line. So it stands for human under every skin Hues me to, I was like, oh, that's sweet. And the idea was kind of born out of, I, you know, I was pregnant back in 2017 and I lived in Chattanooga at the time and I had never done. Skin issues. And I was so itchy all the time during the winter, it was driving me nuts. And I eventually moved to California. It was having the same issue and I found one product that finally worked, but it had like certain things that I didn't really like. And so I started on this journey to try to figure out how they made what they made and like reverse engineer it. Yeah, it was cool. Cause there was a super expensive and I didn't want to keep paying for it either. So I said, I haven't figure this out. So I did, but along the way, I found that there were other things I wanted to include or not include or different sources. So, yeah, so now I've made this really cool product and I've gotten really good feedback about it from people dealing with things even like eczema or just dry skin in general. And I just, I it's the only thing I use now, but I, I really took a long time to make sure that the ingredients that I use are organic fair trade. And then the packaging packaging has been the most exciting achievement for me, which is why I'm glad we're having this conversation. I love it. I did not care that much about packaging. I don't think before this process just kind of like, okay, there's cardboard. There are these, you know, I didn't really know. The stand, the depth and the variety and all of the ins and outs. I had no idea. And it's so fascinating. There are so many options and but it took forever. It took me a solid year to find packaging that I could use for the shipping the wrapping and packaging of the actual product that was sustainable. I have to make sure I'm using dark colored glass because the oils and butters, you want to keep them stable. That's problematic. So I had to make sure, yeah, the UV light would hurt them or degrade them quickly. And then making sure I could find that that also had a sustainable top. It wasn't class. That was consistent that may not be coming from super far away, domestically in the U S we're not making as much glass as we used to. There are only a few facilities now where you can even buy colored glass. And so it's, I've learned a lot the last year.

Cory Connors: 8:02

It's a journey and that's why so many people will, will give up, they'll say, oh, forget it. Just give me the darn. Unrecyclable whatever. And I just, you know, I need to get my product out, you know so kudos to you for sticking it, sticking it out and really identifying a sustainable packaging option. Okay. Thanks. It's a dark glass, like a green or a blue.

Melanie Larkins: 8:28

Yeah. Well now I'm using more of an Amber colored. I started with blue. I shifted to a green one, but the one where I could find a supplier that could give the glass jars as well as a metal way that work, that wasn't painted. So now. Every single piece of the packaging you have to it's so, so interesting. And I was really frustrated at some point I will. Yeah, but I'm proud

Cory Connors: 8:52

now. I've, I've received a lot of calls like, like that over the years of, oh, I am so tired of this. Oh, I'm so frustrated. What do I do now? How do I get through. Issue. And that's one of my favorite parts is being able to solve a frustration overcome a challenge for, for a customer. So that's, that's really cool that you did it all on your own. Well done

Melanie Larkins: 9:17

a lot of research. I'm a researcher by nature. So I'm probably similar to you. If there's a problem. Even more kind of motivated to find the solution. I probably would have given up on the product if I hadn't had that challenge that now that I have been able to overcome it, I'm like, okay, I've got to keep going now, you know?

Cory Connors: 9:37

Well with your scientific background, that really helps a lot. Right. You, you kind of use that method and solve issues, but that's great. I

Melanie Larkins: 9:47

hadn't thought about that, but yeah, it's probably totally.

Cory Connors: 9:51

So talk to us about sustainable packaging. Can, can packaging be sustainable? Can we, can we get through this issue with a bad package?

Melanie Larkins: 10:02

I mean, I think that packaging can be sustainable. I think though that a lot of packaging that's marketed as quote unquote sustainable isn't necessarily. So like I see a lot of, for example, compostable things, which is great. I really love seeing. And when you look at the fine print, you have to take it to a composting facility. You can't just throw it in your compost pile at home. So I've, I've just found that I have to be very. Detailed in my research and reading the fine print and really understanding what happens to that package of at end of life is it's a plastic that's compostable. Can I actually throw that in the compost pile at home? Do I have to find a facility? And then glass for me, I. Coming from California. That's where I'm from. Of course you recycled glass, you recycle everything. In fact, you get money back when you take your blast to the recycling facility. Now I live in Georgia and this and that. So about three years ago, maybe two or three years ago, our county got rid of glass recycling completely. And that wasn't the first time I heard of it. The first time I heard of that, I was in Kansas. I have a lot of family in Kansas and Missouri. And on the Missouri side of Kansas city, I went to this brewery and they had a whole tour and it was super fun. And I was like, okay, great. And they said that they started this glass recycling company because it didn't exist in the state. Like what? So they got together with Owens Corning and a couple other major players and created a glass recycling company that now I think services eight states or more. Wow. And I just flabbergasted. So so yes, I think that that packaging can absolutely be sustainable. And I think the word sustainable can have its limitations or you know, you have to just be really clear about what that means when you're talking about anything, but especially for packaging.

Cory Connors: 12:00

Yeah. It's like saying eco-friendly or environmentally conscious, you know, It's a broad spectrum and we all need to be aware of what it really means. So that's a great point. Thank you for bringing that up. I'm hoping that glass will continue to become more recyclable, that more people like that brewery will, will step up and do what was that brewery called?

Melanie Larkins: 12:24

Ooh. I was just looking them up the other day. Oh man. Now I'm going to have,

Cory Connors: 12:30

if you think of it, let us know, but that's really cool of them to step up. I know there was some students down in new Orleans who realized that glass wasn't recyclable and they started their own business and they've recycled 2 million pounds of glass this year. That's fast. Awesome.

Melanie Larkins: 12:50

That's a lot. Yeah. Glass is tricky. That's another thing I didn't realize how tricky glass is with the different colors and if you need to separate it at the facility the weight of it can also, you know, shift the sustainability aspect where plastic is a lot lighter. So then you're dealing with shipping freights carbon emissions from that truck, you know, So complex. So it's like using the word natural you know, the system is so complex that you have to just be really really clear again on what you're even talking about. If I'm using paper that can be sustainable in theory, I can recycle that. Absolutely. But then how is the paper being sourced? Is it coming from, you know, endangered trees in something that's not even certified or permitted, that's not really that sustainable. So yeah, you just have to really look at the whole picture to really understand if packaging is actually a sustainable.

Cory Connors: 14:23

Totally agree. A great point. And I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about so you're a sustainability project, product manager for Tarkett . Can you can you speak about like what kinds of companies you work with and how, how you're changing their packaging to be more succinct?

Melanie Larkins: 14:43

Yeah, absolutely. So Tarkett is a flooring manufacturer. So so we've worked a lot with our suppliers and procurement. Obviously that's helping to source those suppliers and figuring out how we can have more recyclable packaging. Sometimes we're using wood pallets . And things like that that could be reused, you know, for a really long time or could be recycled at certain facilities. Sometimes we're using cardboard, you know, boxes to wrap things or whatever, and those are fully recyclable. So I would say 90%, if not more of our packaging is recyclable. The flooring is interesting though, because it's you're such large volumes of the product. So it's not like a jar, you know, you're dealing with very large volumes potentially. Let's say if you have 10,000 square feet of flooring and that's going to be a very different, you know, packaging where you might be able to stop tile on pallets and just ship it and then install. Yeah. So that's kind of what that. And then I've worked with other companies over the years as a consultant or just working within other companies and with respect to packaging, one of the. One of the, I think important things when you're talking about corporations, when you're talking about global companies are all those little things. And those little things are things like when you're welcomed into a company, you get a bag of stuff. Your sales team gives customers or potential customers stuff all the time, little trinkets, little, this little that. And so even at Tarkett and other companies, a large focus for me has been, how do we make all those little things more sustainable? And a lot of times it's the product itself, but it's for sure the packaging like, do we need to. Purchase a bunch of backpacks that are all individually wrapped in plastic, or can we find a vendor that just boxes them as a whole, if we're giving them to like, you know, people within the company, or if we're talking about even laptops, you know, companies are using thousands of. Probably tens of thousands of laptops every year. And so how sustainable is that packaging? Are we using something that's being coded? Can we just use something that's cardboard only so that we're not making it so that it's difficult to recycle. And also when you're thinking about consumer. So, this has been a really big one, not as much now during COVID. But when I've worked for for other companies or as a consultant specifically for facilities, this is a huge thing. Yeah. Like coffee pods. At least it's a little bit easier to a lot of those coffee pods happening in a lot of offices around the world. And I've seen that, not just in the U S but also when I traveled to France, when I've traveled to the UK, like those quads are everywhere. Yeah. And so thinking about that or like what your little creamer is coming in, can we do bulk instead or all the soaps? Can we do that in bulk and have a dispenser? Or is there something that we can do to work with catering companies that you use more sustainable packaging for like a box that we're using? It's a lot, like things that I never thought about before getting into the work in the corporate space, but there are so many opportunities to be more. The sustainable , especially with packaging that it's also really exciting and that it's changing so much all the time.

Cory Connors: 18:15

I love it. It's become, it's become not only extremely popular. Obviously very necessary. And I like that, that the fact that you're thinking about even giveaway items for your customers or your clients, customers that's a very important thing. Does each one need to be individually bagged or, you know, come in shrink wrap it's it's we have to think about that when we order things from a factory and try to, or locally, if we can. But not always possible. But sometimes the plastic's necessary, so we don't want it to, you know, we don't want to get rid of it if it's going to affect the quality of the product, you know? So there's a, it's a, it's a fine line. It's a, there's tipping points in all of those decisions. But I like that. You're thinking things through like,

Melanie Larkins: 19:04

Yeah, it's complex, you know, and I liked that. That's probably why I've stayed in sustainability so long. I loved puzzles as a kid. That was my jam. So I feel like it's this giant, you know, jigsaw puzzle and figured out, okay, we changed this one thing of it, then that affects this thing over here. So we've got to figure it out again. And it's always, I dunno, it's always exciting. Something new.

Cory Connors: 19:30

I think you're right. It can be a, I love that you do puzzles. That's so fun. And they have been, become very popular these days with everybody staying at home. I think that's a, I heard there's been a resurgence of puzzles. So you, you also have another job. I dunno how many titles you have, but I couldn't keep track. So I'm just focusing on these three. But you're a consultant. Can you speak to that a little bit? Is it in sustainability? Is.

Melanie Larkins: 19:57

Yeah. So I work as a consultant within sustainability. I've really loved that. It's like you were talking about before, there's like something about having a client come to you with a problem. That's really frustrating them. And it's just, ah, I just, I worry, they don't know how to get started. Or they're stuck or don't know how to grow or like whatever that issue is. And then I get to help them figure out a way to overcome that. It's super satisfying. It's like, yes. Yeah, in sustainability. So I've worked with flooring companies also people in like aerospace or really airport idea other types like Telekom, other types of companies and just helping them get more sustainable. So for most of those, those have not been new programs. I also. As a consultant within a consulting firms. So I was doing the internal program for that firm. And that program was at zero for north America. And I built it up over three years and now they're doing it as a service and it's grown a lot. So yeah, and it's really, people are often dealing with similar problems, even if it's a separate industry, you know, in theory, I think people would think, oh, what happens in an airport doesn't have anything to do with what happens at a manufacturer. But a lot of the time that problems are at the core, very similar of how do we get people to want to change? How do we get people to keep doing whatever we're asking them to do in this new environment? How do we motivate people? How do we track what we're doing? How do we set a target? Yeah,

Cory Connors: 21:35

that ain't measure it. Right. How do you measure sustainability? That's the biggest, that's the biggest question. A lot of people ask, can you give our audience any sustainable packaging tips, anything that's like top of mind that you would like a go-to this is my, this is my thing. That's worked several times, anything like that.

Melanie Larkins: 21:56

So I, couple of things I really love. The jars that I have now. So just that's been so satisfying for me,

Cory Connors: 22:06

satisfied

Melanie Larkins: 22:09

with a metal lid and look out for that. A lot of the quote, unquote, sustainable brands that I'll see in, especially the big box stores. I will not name them. But they're sustainable, but then they're using like plastic all the time and you can recycle plastic. Yes. But it's also can be very damaging to the environment. So I like. I see people using different kinds of packaging that's sustainable and maybe even more so where you can keep reusing it without the product degrading, like glass is one of those things. Metal, depending on what it is, can be one of those things as well. So I like those. I would say also another thing is when you're thinking about sustainable packaging look for what things are. You make sure you're looking at paint and ink, because those are two things that I was not really thinking about a lot of the time, but when it comes to glass, you have to be aware of what's being printed on it or what is being painted on it. And the same for metal, which is going to change how sustainable it is at the end of the day. And if those guys are paints, what they're and what they're made out of. And sometimes it's really hard to know because like my lids, if I got them painted, I might not be able to find out what all was in that paint, even if I'm talking to the supplier. So yeah, just being aware, reading the small prints I looked glass. That's always my go-to, even though it's heavy, I get it. But I, I just love how it looks and I love the feel of it. And I just, I will probably.

Cory Connors: 23:42

I totally agree. I I've got, oh, I've got Owens-Illinois on the schedule for, for this podcast and I'm so excited to interview them about their, their products. So Melanie, thank you so much for your time. Can you speak tell us what's the best way for people to get ahold of you and your.

Melanie Larkins: 24:03

Sure. Thanks. So people can either check out my website. That's www.melanielarkins.com or you can find me on Instagram@melanie.e.larkins. Or you can You know, I'm on clubhouse. If you're ever on clubhouse team handle Melanie Larkins yeah, just I'm around. So my DMS are always open. If you want to drop a line or have questions or just want to connect, I'm happy to do that all the time.

Cory Connors: 24:33

Great. And I'd like to thank our sponsor Landsberg Orora for their continued support and to the listeners. Please take the time to review this podcast and share it with your friends. Thank you again, Melanie. I appreciate it.