6 keys to sustainable packaging with President of RSN Sarah Scudder

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sscuddergrowthstrategist/
What are the six keys to sustainable packaging?
Is popcorn the future of packaging sustainably?
From runway model to president and chief revenue officer!
https://www.linkedin.com/company/rsnetwork/
1.Durable 
2.Minimize Returns
3.Reduce Weight
4.Right Size Packaging
5.Minimize Packaging
6.Clear Instructions For Disposal 

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https://ororapackagingsolutions.com/

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https://www.amazon.com/dp/1329820053/ref=as_sl_pc_qf_sp_asin_til?tag=corygat

https://www.linkedin.com/in/cory-connors/

I'm here to help you make your packaging more sustainable! Reach out today and I'll get back to you asap.

This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022.

Transcript

Cory Connors: 0:35

Welcome to sustainable packaging with Cory Connors I am very excited to introduce my good friend, Sarah Scutter, who is the president and chief revenue officer of real sourcing network. Hi Sarah, how are you?

Sarah Scudder: 0:48

Hello? Hello. We've been breathing heat and smoke here in the bay area. So what, we'll see how things look, look later this week.

Cory Connors: 0:56

Yeah, hopefully that dissipates soon and the firefighters were able to get those fires out. So yeah.

Sarah Scudder: 1:02

I know. Yeah, it's a lot of evacuations and it seems like every year things are getting worse. I know you're on the west coast as well.

Cory Connors: 1:11

Yeah, we were just recently over in sun river, Oregon. And we're about 20 minutes from that fire. It's a challenge. I, I hoping something can be done soon about that, but let's, let's focus on packaging. Tell us about your sustainable packaging story. How did you get into this industry and a focus of sustainable.

Sarah Scudder: 1:33

So my career path is kind of unique as I feel a lot of people who wind up in procurement and packaging. I think you just kind of, it happens a lot of people don't wake up and say, I'm going to go to college to go into packaging, or I'm going to go and go into, go to school to go into procurement. I think. Something that kind of happens. And that's my similar to my story. So I actually, you used to do runway modeling and wanted to go into the fashion industry. So I had planned that I was going to produce fashion. Someday. So after college, I was planning to work for a production company and then eventually hopefully have my own company producing fashion shows. So that was kind of always my vision and passion growing up. And when I was in school, well, my senior year of college. To a very small school here in the bay area called Sonoma state in wine country. And I put on a fundraising event for my sorority called lip jam and our philanthropy was diabetes research. So we put on this big production every year. And I decided kind of as my last hurrah, as a senior, that I was going to help produce the event. And in order to do that, we had to source and buy all these things. We had to buy media, we had to do graphic design. We had to buy print. We had to buy promo apparel, all these different things. And I had a full course load. I had no experience really in marketing or procurement. And so I decided that I was going to hire a company to manage all of that. So great decision. It was kind of, I outsourced it, they took care of everything. And after the event, they said, Hey, Sarah, we're really looking to build out our team. We want to bring in more females. We want younger people. Would you be interested in coming and working for us? And immediately I'm thinking no way I want to go into fashion. Procurement is, is completely off the spectrum, but I always know that networking and building relationships and looking at opportunities that come your way is really useful. So I decided after spending more time with the team and really learning about the company that I wanted to give it a shot. So I was a very small local company. I joined the team as soon as I graduated and we were in the middle marketing procurement space. So what that means is companies would outsource any marketing. Thing that they needed to buy and we would go and procurement procure it for them. And a big portion of that was print and packaging. Oh, wow. So that, that's kind of how I fell into it. And, and as I grew with the company, we really focused on technology and leveraging technology to do a better job for our clients and help our clients obtain their procurement. The company that I was at was acquired a few years later by a larger firm that wanted to expand on the west coast. So I stayed there. I became the chief growth officer for about three years and kind of helped build out that national brand. And then I was approached by a tech startup in New York called real sourcing network goes by RSN, a group of guys that had come from the paper and print and tech space. And they wanted to develop something that was unique and different, but they didn't really know kind of what strategy and how to tackle it. Semi retired. It was kind of like, you know a hobby project. And so they brought me on in August of 2018 to help run the growth strategy and marketing. And I've been there ever since.

Cory Connors: 5:37

That's a cool story and, and you're exactly right. Most of us fall into packaging. By mistake. That's so true. And we stay because it's such a unique and it's a small world here in the, in the world of packaging, I would

Sarah Scudder: 5:52

say. And one of the things, so when I started with RSN, we're a very technology focused company. So we leverage a proprietary platform. To manage sustainability diversity, send, spend all the procurement and buying that we do globally. So I have a real passion for technology and automating manual work. So you can free up resources. So people and companies can be more efficient and more effective. So just a personal passion of mine and our team. But when we started, we were really focused on print and not as much on packaging. Over the last year and a half, actually COVID really drove a big pivot in our business. And it started with our team ordering so much online. Yeah. So the things that we would use to go to the grocery store for, or go to a retail clothing store, we all pivoted and started buying things online. And we were in team meetings talking about how much waste our households were generous. Yep. And we said, if this is happening to all of us, imagine what this is happening on a global scale. Imagine how many other households are generating this much waste every single week. And we said, we want to provide a solution to this problem. And help companies and people generate less waste and be better for the environment. So because of that personal experience, that me and my team or living, we decided to really pivot our business model and focus on sustainable packaging. We still do a lot in the print procurement space, but packaging has really become our focus because we feel. Such a significant need, especially for small to mid-sized brands who maybe don't have, you know, a 30 person in-house packaging team. They don't have somebody running sustainabilities. They'd maybe don't have the designers or resources internally. So thinking about changing packaging can be really overwhelming and almost scary. So people just ignore it and focus on other things.

Cory Connors: 8:11

That's exactly right. They let it slide until it becomes a, a fiscal challenge or they can't get stock or whatever the issue may be. Think back to your days in the sorority, when, when you were overwhelmed. I think that's the same feeling that a lot of buyers and purchasing agents are feeling today is man, I just want to get boxes or I just want to, I just need. X, whatever that is. Can you, can you make it for us? Well, yeah, but what if we tried this? Oh, I haven't never thought of that. So that's exactly the same kind of steps and process that we look at.

Sarah Scudder: 8:47

So, so for us, we really focus on the education piece as well. I think there's a huge opportunity to teach consumers and companies that pivoting and making your packaging more sustainable is very doable. And by using visuals and examples and clear messaging, We, our team feels that, you know, hopefully that we're making an impact and we've launched some really fun initiatives to try to help with.

Cory Connors: 9:18

Yeah, I've enjoyed all your social media. And I think is that, is that where we met? Did we meet on a, we met on

Sarah Scudder: 9:25

clubhouse, actually, I hopped in, I think you were, you were hosting one of your weekly sustainable packaging rooms. And I had hopped in after I hosted a room and said, Hey, these are my people. I got to check this out

Cory Connors: 9:38

and we welcomed you with open arms because that's what we do in this industry. Yeah, I love that. And yeah, we've done. You've invited me to be on, on several panels and I really appreciate that, but I've appreciated your wisdom on your social media posts and your panels that you've hosted.

Sarah Scudder: 9:57

Yeah. So we're, we, we we've launched something that I think has really fun and it's called the Scutter wall of packaging shame. And so what we're doing is we're taking submissions from people all over the world, video and pictures. Of the most wasteful packaging that people receive. And we're asking people to submit those to us. And then what we do is we turn them into social media posts and the purpose is to not shame companies, but it's to educate people and show. How wasteful packaging actually is. And, and then we provide very actionable examples and tips of things that people could have done differently with that specific shipment. So for anybody who's listening, if you get something that you think. Absolutely wasteful and packaged incorrectly. Feel free to send in a submission if you're not comfortable using your name or company. Totally fine. But we just, we are really, really hoping that that will take off. And we started to get really good traction and we've gotten, we're getting a lot more submission. So that's something that's really fun. And then we've also launched the packaging experts tell all monthly LinkedIn live show. And the purpose of that show is I bring on experts from all over the world. And each month we pick a different packaging topic. So sustainable packaging is very broad and somewhat niche, but sustainable packaging is so, so different depending on the vertical. So for instance, Canada, Or food packaging or subscription boxes. So each month we pick a different topic, always a sustainable packaging theme to everything that we do, but that's a show that we host every Tuesday,

1: 11:46

00 PM Eastern on LinkedIn live. So anyone who's wanting to learn more about packaging or potentially be an expert or guest on the show would love to hear it.

Cory Connors: 12:30

Definitely enjoyed my time on those several panels. And I actually learned quite a bit from the other panel members and from you. So that was that was great experience. And I definitely recommend those to people who are interested in, in packaging and learning. Yeah. So I always ask this question of every guest and I'm, I'm fascinated to hear your thoughts. Can packaging be sustainable?

Sarah Scudder: 12:56

So the answer is yes. And I'll, I'll highlight as to why I think that, and I actually have prepared. So I'm big on providing really simple, clear tips and takeaways that the everyday person and company can implement. So, I think packaging can be made sustainable by six different ways. And if that's okay with you, I'd like to spend a little bit of time ago. Yeah, let's do it. So the first, the most important thing is making your packaging. So if you, if your product gets damaged and shipment and the company has to send you a replacement, that's the most unsustainable thing that can happen for your packaging because you're having to use more materials. More product and a greater carbon imprint to get that item to the consumer again. So first and foremost, when I'm talking to brands and working with companies, you want to focus on making sure your packaging is durable and will protect whatever it is that right. Your shipping. Second thing is minimizing returns. Returns are also some of the most unsustainable things that accompany can do again, because you're then increasing the amount of packaging material and increasing the carbon imprint. And that's why companies like Wayfair, for instance, I've ordered products from them before if the item is damaged or they want to return it often, they'll just tell you to. Right, right. Is less costly for them. Right. Totally costly for them. And that's their driving factor now, now potentially that's also more sustainable because then I'm not having to package it up and return it, but that's. Second thing that people can do to be more sustainable is minimized returns. And really what that involves is procurement and or the packaging team who's ever responsible for packaging at a company, working directly with the marketing department to make sure your messaging is really clear and you're accurately reflecting the product that you're selling. And so for me, there's a few, a couple of things that are really important, have accurate images. If I am selling this hydro flask, I want to make sure it looks like this actual product. I don't want to make it look larger or smaller or the wrong color in the images. So have really, really clear, accurate images of your products. The second is have clear dimensions. I know I have personally ordered items where the dimensions were actually wrong and you get the product and then you have to.

Cory Connors: 15:52

Yeah, you can hear those stories of people ordering furniture and it's and it's miniature. It's always funny.

Sarah Scudder: 16:01

That's a great example because measurements can be really important if you're fitting something in a larger set and it needs to be very, very specific about the size and where it's going to be placed and then have really clear messaging put with exactly what the product is and how it works. And those are really important ways. Thing and things that you can do to minimize returns. The third thing, and I know Corey, you and I have talked a lot about this, and this is probably the biggest area that my team and I are helping companies with right now. And that is reducing the weight of your package. Yeah, so costs are going up and it's causing packaging to be a lot more expensive. And I don't think we're going to see any slow down in the price increases this year and potentially even next year. So in order. To manage your costs. You want to use as little material as possible. And what that means is that's going to potentially make your packaging lighter. And when your packaging is lighter, it's actually more sustainable. So you're, you're doing good for the environment. While you're also reducing your costs. So that's something I, I just can't hit home enough is look at your packaging material and see what you can do to reduce the amount of material that's being used, which will then in turn, reduce the weight of your package. The fourth thing is to right-size your packaging. And I, I post a lot of pictures and examples about this. I get more submissions for our packaging wall of shame than anything else that relates to packaging being the wrong size. Yeah. And I think Amazon right now is probably one of the worst offenders. I know for things that I've received here and examples that I've seen people share from all over the globe and what it means is make your packaging as closely fit the products that are in the packaging as possible. And a great example of this is the apparel company. They are totally focused on sustainability, every single aspect of their brand. So from the materials they use in the clothing that they produce to their packaging, they've actually vowed to eliminate all plastic from their packaging. And we'll get into this. I don't necessarily think all plastic is bad. Sometimes plastic packaging actually is more sustainable, but in their case, they've chosen to eliminate it. And every time I ordered. Products from them. My dad loves their stuff. So birthdays holidays, I'm always ordering clothing. It comes in a hundred percent risk bag recyclable bag made from a hundred percent recycled fibers and it very closely. The shorts or the shirts or the products that I've ordered. And I'm always very impressed with that. So I may get a bag that's this side and it very closely fits the items in it. And I can't say that about a lot of brands that I order from.

Cory Connors: 19:06

Yeah. Unfortunately that's the exception, not the rule yet. So.

Sarah Scudder: 19:11

But so, you know, if you are working at a company and you can spend some time looking at the actual shipments that are going out to your consumers and getting some data together, I think data is one of the best ways to combat this challenge is get a sense of the average number of products that you're shipping, the average size of your products and the average weights of your. When you have that information, then you can go out and source pro packaging that is going to most closely fit the different size shipments that you're sending out. So you may say, okay, 80% of our orders have five items. 20 10% of our orders have one item and the other 10% have three items. Then you can go out and source packaging for those different order sizes. The fifth thing is to minimize the amount of packaging being used. And for this, I would say that the biggest challenge I see is brands putting too much filler inside their box. So I'll go back to my hydro flask flask example. Cause they have this handy. This is something that's probably not going to break. This is a pretty durable product and item. So if I'm shipping this in a box, I don't need to fill it with recycled paper, with air pockets, with whatever other material that I'm using to put inside because it's not going to work. So it's really important for you as a brand to think about. Do you actually need to include any filler inside your shipments? A lot of times the answer is no, and that not only is more sustainable, but it's going to save you money because then you don't need to buy that filler.

Cory Connors: 21:09

Exactly. Yes.

Sarah Scudder: 21:12

And then the sixth tip that I have on how I think brands can help with make their packaging more sustainable is printing clear instructions on how to dispose of the package. This is probably one of my biggest pet peeves. So I would say about 50% of the packaging that we receive at my house. I don't know how to dispose of, and I am in the packaging industry. Right. So imagine the average consumer, when the PA, when they get a box or package, they often have no idea what to do. So what does that mean? It winds up in the trash. Which means it's going to go in a landfill. So if I'm working with brands that have sustainable packaging, my first thing is, do you have clear instructions to the consumer knows how to recycle this packaging? And most of the time the answer is no. So first thing is, is there a way that we can clearly print the disposal instructions on the package? And oftentimes you're already putting a logo. You're already printing something on it. So it's not adding any additional cost by also adding that extra text. The other thing you can do is add a QR code, which is becoming very popular in mainstream. I would say most of the packaging I'm receiving now has a QR. And then you can capture the, the additional data from the consumer by adding that QR code. So when a consumer scans it, you then can track the data about who that consumer is, how long they're engaging with that video or that piece of information. But in that video, have the CEO or have the. Somebody from the company talking about how to dispose of the packaging. And then you can sneak in some marketing information about your brand story or why your product or company is unique.

Cory Connors: 23:14

Great idea. I love that idea of adding in marketing to that because a lot of brands like we've discussed have sustainability initiatives or goals, or a lot of people are talking about 2030, like. This, this monumental year where everyone's going to all of the sudden change to be more sustainable. I hope that's true. But I love the idea of starting now and saying, listen guys, here's how you recycle this stuff or here's how you reuse it, or here's a, another option alternative to the landfill. I agree.

Sarah Scudder: 23:49

Yeah. And because recycling is such a challenge right now because there's no, oh, we'll just talk about the U S there's no gold standard. Every county, every city recycling facilities are different. So you call it, you have to call your local facility and get a sense of what they actually do. And don't accept in a lot of the things that we actually put in recycling go to a recycling facility. But if that facility can't, doesn't have the right equipment. To to recycle it. It actually ends up in the trash or landfill anyway. So it's really important that those consumers have that clear, specific information. So if it is sustainable, it's not ending up in a landfill. It's, it's actually, you know, winding up in your garden. For instance, I I've talked about this before. Ikea is working on a cool initiative where they're using a new product to replace all their styrofoam. And so styrofoam is one of the most wasteful types of packaging that a brand can use. It ends up in a landfill and for years and years, it sits there and it it's, it doesn't degrade very well. So there's this new material that's actually manufactured in Troy, New York, that Ikea and Dell and a few other brands are rolling out right now. And it's actually made out of money. So, what you're supposed to be able to do is remove your product from the packaging. And then you take that material and you put it in your garden and after three weeks, it's supposed to completely biodegrade. Now, the reason I'm sharing this example is if they don't clearly provide instructions to the consumers, how are they going to know that it's not styrofoam, that it's made of mushrooms and that it is biodegradable. So if there's not that instruction step. You're going to put it in the trash and it's going to wind back up in the lake.

Cory Connors: 25:43

Absolutely. And so many people confuse biodegradable or compostable with recyclable, I think. Oh, oh, that's a, that goes in this bin because it's environmentally friendly. Well, no, that's not how that works. And if you put it in the recycle bin, it's actually going to cause more harm than good, because then it will end up in Atlanta. Like you said, there, the recycling center, isn't going to take time to send it to the industrial composting facility. If there is one near there a really good point, and I love that mycelium mushroom idea. And I think it will take off it's such a, it's so unfortunate because. Styrofoam polystyrene is totally recyclable, but it doesn't get recycled because it's so bulky and expensive is what I've heard. Those are the two detractors. So it just ends up in the landfill for hundreds of years. And that, like you said, that's the worst case.

Sarah Scudder: 26:44

So do my very long answer to your question is yes, I think packaging can be sustainable. And those are six ways that I think people can immediately start assessing their packaging and making efforts to make it more sustained.

Cory Connors: 27:00

Well, I've I think your guests number 21, and that is the most detailed answer in a yes form. And I appreciate you. I knew you would come out on top, Sarah. Well done. So what's the future for sustainable packaging? What else? What else are we developing other than my Celia mushroom packaging? Anything else that you're excited about?

Sarah Scudder: 27:23

Well, I'm excited about several things. One of them I'll talk about is more of a movement. And then I'll talk about some of the cool innovations that we've been featuring and looking at. So, first thing is I think we're really going to see a movement in brands, making their packaging. Yeah, I think there's a huge financial incentive for them to do that because freight and transit costs have become so expensive. So I think this is going to become a priority for procurement or stakeholders for marketing, for whoever's involved with packaging companies. And I think there are things that people can do. That are very, very cost-effective to make their packaging lighter. So a couple of inventions that I think will help in that space are air-filled pockets are things that people can use if you do actually need to use filler and a box. And the reason I'm saying those is they are so. No. If you have a breakable product that you need to protect, you can use air pillows and they're nearly weightless. So they're not going to have a big impact on the overall weight. The other thing, our foam inserts. Foam inserts are designed to fit the shape of your product and cradle it in the shipping carton. They're very, very strong and very lightweight. So I think we're going to see more brands start using those rather than loose filler material. And then something that I think is totally, totally under utilized is water activated. And you may be thinking why in the world, the Sarah talking to us about tape tape is actually can be a big part of the packaging and fulfillment process. And the reason that I mentioning this is if you have a box and you have to continuously apply tape to it, that can actually bring your weight into a higher category, which will actually increase the cost of your shipping. So companies who are using walk water, activated tape, sometimes it's also known as paper tape, gum tape, or craft paper tape. It creates a tamper, a basement seal. And just with one strip, you can close up the packaging.

Cory Connors: 29:53

And I like what tape a lot. And I think it is finally the costs of a acrylic and poly tapes have gotten to be so high. That paper tape is very competitive cost-wise now. And like you said, totally recyclable with the box a hundred percent, but degradable, if it does end up in the landfill really great points. I liked, I like all those things.

Sarah Scudder: 30:17

My second thing is I think we're going to see an event, a company come up with a way to get rid of labels, and we're actually going to print things directly on the box. And the reason I bring this up is labels are a huge hindrance in sustainable package. Yeah, so I have the sustainable packaging and then I have to print shipping instructions and put it on a label. And then I apply it to my packaging material. And if that label is not sustainable, you're you cannot recycle that packaging material, unless you remove the lid. And how many times do you actually get something? Oh, look at your packaging. Figure out what isn't, isn't sustainable and remove things from it before you put it in risk in recycling. It's just not, it's just not what the average person is going to do. It's not realistic to ask people to do that much. So I think we're going to see. Some invention where we actually get away from labels completely. And we print what we need directly on the packaging material.

Cory Connors: 31:31

Yeah. That makes sense. I've seen him in process. I've seen him work a direct printer, a laser printer. But like he said, I've never seen one that that's unique to every shipment. And I think that that makes a lot of sense that could happen. So

Sarah Scudder: 31:47

that's something that I'm really excited about. And I think we're going to see it happen sooner than, than we've predicted. And it's something people don't even think about. It's just, you've used a label for 200 years, enough process. But if you think about from a sustainability perspective, it actually is a huge. In regards to innovations, I am really excited about the new materials that companies are investing in and testing that are a hundred percent biodegradable. So a couple examples. The first one is packaging made from popcorn. So we actually interviewed the gentleman that invented this. He is a professor in China. And him and his wife went to the movie theater and they were eating popcorn. And as he was eating popcorn, he said, why can't we use popcorn to make packaging? So he went back to his team and they spent a couple years making many, many different iterations using different components of popcorn. And they actually developed something that is super durable, that holds up to liquid. And that is a hundred percent biodegrade. Mm. So they've actually patented it and they've sold the invention to a company that's actually started creating now and developing packaging made from popcorn. So that's something that I think is really cool and innovative, and I think we're going to see more materials. Like that being used in packaging. And these are things that we we've never thought of before. We actually, and if, if anyone's interested in learning more about the popcorn packaging, we interviewed the gentleman who's created this and we posted our entire interview and we have an article about it. It's on our website. So I think we're going to see more and more.

Cory Connors: 33:44

So innovative. I love it. And, and you're right. There's going to be more and more of these ideas and thoughts and the, the future is bright for sustainable packaging. I think you and I agree on that.

Sarah Scudder: 33:56

I'll close out with my final, my final thought on that. Which is I think the other thing we're going to see more of is convenience in regards to packaging. And I did a post a couple of weeks ago about a brand in the Netherlands called roller packaging. I personally not tested it or used it, but it's the idea that you can make packaging sustainable from some popcorn mushrooms and some of the different materials that are being tested, but you can also make it convincing. So they have developed this packaging, that specific for the apparel industry. So shipping t-shirts shorts purses, and when you have to try to fold and configure things and then put it in a box that that can be a challenge. So their packaging it's all rolled out. You lay the product in it, and then you actually roll the packaging. So it's raw. The item is rolled up inside of it. And I think that's going to be a movement. Cause I think convenience is key for adoption.

Cory Connors: 35:02

Yeah. Those, those are neat. Packaging option. I liked that. The reason. Yeah, I think, I think that they, the way to make those sustainable is to make them reusable because it's a lot of packaging for a small item. But I totally agree. It's very convenient, very easy to use. Really cool market. Great point love all that stuff. So is there a, how do we get ahold of you? What's the best way?

Sarah Scudder: 35:26

So I am super active on social media. Probably my, my platform that I'm on the most is LinkedIn. You can find me at Sarah Scutter growth strategist. And then I've launched a hashtag and I post about packaging almost every single day. And that is Scutter says, so if you want to learn more about packaging, I post a lot about new materials. Cool companies, just really interesting, informative news. That's related to packaging. Feel free to follow that hashtag.

Cory Connors: 35:57

Thank you so much for your time. I want to thank Landsberg ORORA for sponsoring this podcast. We appreciate your support and thank you so much, Sarah. I appreciate it.

Sarah Scudder: 36:06

Thanks Corey.