Paper from leaves! / Releaf with Alexander Sobolenko

https://www.releaf-paper.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/company/re-leaf-tech/posts/?feedView=all

What if leaves could be turned into packaging? 
we wouldn't need to cut down a tree to make paper! 

Check out our sponsor Orora Packaging Solutions 
https://ororapackagingsolutions.com/

https://specright.com/ 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1329820053/ref=as_sl_pc_qf_sp_asin_til?tag=corygat

https://www.linkedin.com/in/cory-connors/

I'm here to help you make your packaging more sustainable! Reach out today and I'll get back to you asap.

This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022.

Transcript

Cory Connors: 0:31

Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guest is Mr. Alexander Sobolenko. He is the chairman and general manager at Relief Paper. How are you, Alexander?

alexander Sobolenko: 0:43

Hello, Corey. fine. Thank you. Thank you for invitation. My honor to be here today with

Cory Connors: 0:47

you. Oh, it's my honor to have you. I appreciate that so much. Let's talk about your background. how did you get into

alexander Sobolenko: 0:53

packaging? Well, it was really a tricky way because within 15 years, I was involved mostly in the consumer electronics industry and there was nothing related to packaging or paper. But in the end of my, consumer electronic paths, I started a couple of my own businesses and some of them were related to circular economy. And finally, I did my exit from the, my last own company that we're doing trade in of. cell phones, etc. And I was looking to start the new business, associated with the circular economy. And then accidentally I found something called relief paper, some Ukrainian startup launched by Ukrainian student. And that was something that inspired me a lot. And I got in contact with him and understood that there are a lot of things to do together. And since 2021, I was involved into the paper and packaging industry, thinking

Cory Connors: 1:53

to relief paper. Wow. That's wonderful. I love to hear stories like that. And, it's exciting. To learn about what you're offering. It's totally unique. I've never heard of anyone doing this. Tell us about Relief Paper and what you're doing.

alexander Sobolenko: 2:11

Well, what we're doing is really unique and It is based on the technology that was developed by my partner And this technology allows to process green waste, particularly falling leaves into fibers for making paper and molded packaging. You are right. We are the only one in the world who are doing this in the industrial scale based on their own tailored technology, which is very different from the traditional pulping technology. in that way, from one side, we, process and utilize green waste gathered by the cities. And from another side, we introduced totally new, innovative and sustainable material for packaging industry.

Cory Connors: 2:52

That's amazing. so you collect leaves off of the street from the city, municipalities that are cleaning the parks and people's yards. and this is a waste stream that they used to have to deal with. And now you're taking it and turning it into a sellable product. Is that right? Yeah, this is a waste

alexander Sobolenko: 3:14

stream, but the business process is easier. In fact, we are not collecting it by ourselves because otherwise we will be just do collection and there will be no time for doing the product. So the approach is a bit smarter. We utilize the up and running processes applicable for the most of the European cities. Most of the cities already have infrastructure of gathering the green waste from the streets, and we just. deal with them with the waste which are already collected by the leaves. And then yes, we process them in fibers and then the paper mills process fibers into paper. And then the totally new and innovative packaging appearing on the market made from fallen

Cory Connors: 3:54

leaves. Excellent. What was the city's, what is the city's response normally when you come to them and say, Hey, we would love to, to get your leaves from you. Do they, are they excited? Are they confused?

alexander Sobolenko: 4:09

it's where it depends on the city if to talk generally. So yeah, everyone liked the idea. But again, as we're dealing with the cities or with governments, it's a very complicated task and despite of the interest, it is very complicated and it takes a lot of efforts and time to, to start this processes, especially in the Western Europe or Northern Europe. So everyone excited, everyone wants to do this, but it takes. years sometimes to get in touch with them. but yeah, we succeeded already with at least two big cities. The one of it is the city of Kiev, capital city of Ukraine, where the story started several years ago. And when. Due to the full scale invasion of Russia into Ukraine, one and a half years ago, we started to look for another country for having the new production. We, go through a lot of countries. Finally, we landed up in France. And recently we identified, the area close to Paris, which will be the supplier of the leaves. That's not the city itself. It's rather a private company who collect the green waste from the variety of small cities around Paris, and we deal with them. Wow. That's

Cory Connors: 5:22

excellent. so you'll be producing in France instead of, Ukraine.

alexander Sobolenko: 5:26

we do, we try to do both. We still keep in production in Ukraine. And at the same time, we started to build the big pulp factory in France this year, which is going to be completed in the end of 2024. And we are not, want to be limited with it. We have a roadmap of further development. We're already approaching a lot of new countries. In the Western Europe and, in the North Europe as well. Unfortunately for us, this initiative is supported by European Commission, particularly by the European Innovative Council, and they are our investor in this process. So when it comes to setting up the new production in new country, we are more than confident because we are backed by the European Commission.

Cory Connors: 6:08

that's incredible. And that makes perfect sense for them to support you because what you're doing is so sustainable and such an innovative, system. Congratulations. you recently won a, innovative startup award from Google. can you tell us how that came about and what the, was that a surprise for you?

alexander Sobolenko: 6:28

Well, in the very beginning of our story, we felt a lack of funds, first of all, because there was a lot of ideas to implement, but again, that's the industrial process that requires a lot of cash. And we were seeking for the money everywhere, and we were talking to potential investors, et cetera. And in the same time, we were applying for financials from the different non government institutions or some. grant program for corporations and I think the Google for startup award was one of the first big achievement for us. We've got it in early 2022 and it was very important, not only from the financial perspective, but also because it happened in the time when the war already started and we felt very. unclear about the future. We stuck in Ukraine. The production temporary was stopped and all the potential customers from the Europe were not risking to, to work with us. We were desperately needed, this money and the Google for startup was the big. Breakthrough for us. So it helped a lot after this happened a lot of, more pleasant things in terms of funding from the WWF, from the European Bank of Reconstruction and Development, and finally from the European Commission. But this award and grant from Google was very important for us.

Cory Connors: 7:50

Exciting. and to be, commended by such an amazing company like Google is a huge win for anyone. And, especially to have them pay you. Wow. Exciting. wow. So I'll be, speaking at Paris Packaging Week in France here in January. Will you attend that event?

alexander Sobolenko: 8:12

we have a team in Paris. And I'm not sure if I will be personally there, but again, if we will be, if there will be a chance to attend. So, yeah, I think we will take this opportunity.

Cory Connors: 8:24

That, might be a great spot for you to talk about, what you're doing, to local companies there in France. So good choice. I wanted to talk a little bit about the history of packaging. Banana leaves have been, used as, packaging for many years. is that where the inspiration for this product came from, or can you speak to

alexander Sobolenko: 8:42

that? Not really. So, the story started from much. simple things. in the, in 2017, my partner at that time, he was just a 16 year old Ukrainian student from the rural area, living close to Carpathian forests. So he was he had the, the background in the biotechnology and he was very environmentally concerned and having nothing to do in his small town. He was exploring the new properties of different plants in order to find the suitable raw material for making paper in order to reduce deforestation. So he did a test with a grass, with a straw, but every time when he succeeded with something, he understood that it's no longer unique. Someone already doing this in the world. Finally, he tried with the leaves and he succeeded with the leaves. It took six months for him working both in the school lab with a teacher of biology and also at the home kitchen. that's true. So it took six months to succeed. After six months, he got solid. samples of paper, which was good enough, strong enough, and it was made fully from the leaves. And he understood that this is really unique. This is what exactly that he was looking for. He checked. It was really innovative. And, the technology of getting this Fibers for making paper from leaves was also unique. So I would say the banana leaves was not a source of inspiration I think valentine my partner even didn't know about this He was driven by the desire to create something innovative something unique in order to find the new raw materials for making paper instead of wood pulp.

Cory Connors: 10:28

Incredible how students, often come up with innovations because their minds are so open to ideas. And, I'm totally impressed with you and your partner and what you're doing. how can I, and other people get samples of this material? I'd love to, to feel it and see how it works.

alexander Sobolenko: 10:48

Well, samples is one of the most frequent requests we are getting, but I think it's on the second, place. The most common request is how you are doing this. I want to do the same in my yard. So these requests are coming from all over the world. From one side, it is pleasant. From another side, it brings us a lot of Time to explain people that this is industrial process. It's not the something manual that you, everyone can do. So it's a matter of huge investments and of the big scale coming back to the samples, of course, I can send the sample pack to you, but as we are having too much requests for samples, we make a bit. automatic process of getting this. So anyone who wants can go to our internet shop and, and place an order for this sample pack with a different sheets of paper and some paperbacks made from this paper, et cetera. So it's already available on the relief back. com, with the free shipping all over the European union and probably United Kingdom, but it's a bit more complicated because of that, the custom rule, et cetera, but. It technically it's possible.

Cory Connors: 11:55

Well, maybe I can meet you in Paris and we'll, we'll have, in person handoff so we don't have to ship it over to the U. S. I was really impressed with your website, how you explained that process of the frequently asked questions and, no, you can't make this on your own. it's not an easy process and you need to work with us, to get a new facility set up in your country. I thought that was really smart to put that up there. Well done. So talk a little bit about the future of Relief. you said France and do you have other countries that you're, you've got your eye on? Yes,

alexander Sobolenko: 12:31

so we have a road map and sometimes the requests are pushing us to change a bit our roadmap because every time when we're visiting some new country for exhibition, et cetera, we are getting so much requests. For example, we visited the United States in early January for the, for the CES show in the Las Vegas. And since the time we've got. I would say hundreds of requests from the United States to set up the local production there. The same from Canada. Then something happened in Japan and we are getting a lot of requests from Japan, but having the very small team Now it is only ten people working on it and fully focused on the French factory We cannot afford ourselves to be everywhere in the same time But once we will be done with the French production and it will prove its economical results we of course ready to scale and in Europe where Most closely to the Netherlands now as a second location in the same time. We're exploring Germany. We're exploring Finland and half an hour ago I was on the call with Sweden and of course more countries in but we need to do the validation Not all of the countries have the enough quantity of fallen leaves Affordable for us. That's the first limitation And of course, we are seeking to thinking too much about the United States because that's a huge market In terms of climate and the availability of leaves, it bring us a lot of opportunities. So if to talk about the future of relief in 10 years, my dream is to have at least 10 small factories in 10 years in different parts of the world. Most of them will be of course, in Europe because we are here, but also I'm dreaming about having. Two factories in the United States, one on the east coast, another on the west coast, one in Canada. And see some serious interest from Japan, why not to have one of them in Japan as well?

Cory Connors: 14:28

I think it's wonderful. I can attest that there are lots of leaves here in Oregon. in my yard in particular. So I'd like to offer you my leaves at no charge. Thank you. What is the paper that you produce generally used for? Is it for packaging or writing

alexander Sobolenko: 14:46

on or? It is for the moment. It's only for packaging and, So, the problem of relief is that our business model is a bit complicated comparing to the size of the company we have. So, the know how is in the raw materials, but we are trying to deal with the paper as a commodity and also with the packaging made of this paper. So, so far, we are focused on three huge directions and sometimes it's too much for us. Yeah. But Yes, it is mainly used for packaging and the main application within packaging is so far paper bags and corrugated boards and boxes Also, it is used at the wrapping paper and we know that some customers are using this to produce the labels stickers for the products and But it is pretty much depends on the paper mill which is producing this paper from our material, because a current paper mill can do something like a craft paper. and it is partially mixed with the waste paper. And now the paper mills that we are approaching now, they can mix it with the virgin fibers, and the properties of paper could be different, and the color could be different. That's why it is Theoretically, it could be used not only for packaging, but also as a copy, or a printer's paper as well. Also, we're keeping in mind the direction of the hygienic paper, like tissues and toilet papers. It's also possible, and I can share that recently we did a test with the pineapple waste. and I would say that we explored the new direction. The fibers of pineapple weighs very long, very strong, and very soft, and with significantly big, bigger yield than from the fallen leaves. And they are perfect not only for packaging paper, but Exactly for the hygienic and one of our ideas for the next five years is also to get the access to the huge feedstock of the pineapple leaves somewhere in the tropical countries and to build something focused on the production of the hygienic paper.

Cory Connors: 16:48

Whoa, so not just leaves, you're talking about other waste materials. This is incredible.

alexander Sobolenko: 16:54

It's incredible. it was not designed like this. So it was designed specifically for the fallen leaves, but the reality and the market push us to be more flexible. When it came to Netherlands and we're seeking for the leaves, we honestly didn't find the leaves in the quantity that we need. But instead of that, the Netherlands offer us the plenty of the agri waste. Sorry, no leaves, but there is a steams of potatoes, steams of tomato, pepper, flowers, etc. Can you use that? We have no ideas if we can do that, but we've got some samples. We did the R& D and in one week, we've got the samples of cucumber paper. We were surprised that this technology could work not only with leaves, but with the agro weights as well. So I assume every time when we will come to a new country to set up the production, we will not only focus on the product itself to produce the fibers, but also to resolve the problem of The local way streams disposing technologies were flexible and it could be easily adopted to the local specific.

Cory Connors: 17:59

That's an, that's amazing. I just got back from the Netherlands and I can assure you they are incredibly talented farmers and, their innovations are unique. So this, I think this is a good spot for you to explore. Wow. I'm excited to learn more about this. I really want to, have you on again in six months or a year and talk about what's been happening. Maybe we can make this a recurring show every year if you don't mind. Sure. Sure. Great. How do people get in touch with you if they wanna buy some paper from you?

alexander Sobolenko: 18:33

we are, we're active in the social media. I think we are everywhere for the B2C customers. We are in the Instagram for the corporates. We are in the LinkedIn and we have the corporate website with all the contacts. And we have an internet shop with some samples and some, some real, products like a paperbacks. And of course I'm available for the. For the con. I'm too much in the business developments. That's why all the new opportunities, this is something that I love to explore so the people can find me on the LinkedIn, I'm Alexander Lanco or mail me at as, at relief paper.com and I will be happy

Cory Connors: 19:14

to talk. Thank you sir. Really an honor to talk to you and keep up the sustainable packaging efforts. I appreciate it. Thank you, Kurt.