Investing in a Sustainable future / Costas Papaikonomou / Una Terra VC

https://unaterra.vc/
How is Una Terra VC investing in a sustainable future? 

Are real joy speaking with Costas and he describes life in the Netherlands and how Packaging Europe is a top notch event. 

Check out our sponsor Orora Packaging Solutions 
https://ororapackagingsolutions.com/

https://specright.com/ 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1329820053/ref=as_sl_pc_qf_sp_asin_til?tag=corygat

https://www.linkedin.com/in/cory-connors/

I'm here to help you make your packaging more sustainable! Reach out today and I'll get back to you asap.

This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022.

Transcript

Cory Connors: 0:31

Welcome to Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors. Today's guest is Costas Papai Anamu. And, we're excited to learn about your background, sir. you're a founding partner at Una Terra Venture Capital Fund. Can you tell us about how you got into this

costas: 0:46

business? Yeah. So the story started, technically it's my third career to be transparent. So a bit about myself, I'm 50 years old, I've been in, in innovation and let's say the business of doing new things for over 25 years now. And my first career was as an engineer building basically machinery, designing products, ended that after 10 years, did some, moved into something quite different, which was innovation consulting. After that with a business called happen group, which I co founded with two dear friends. and that basically took me into the world of mass consumer goods, and understanding you could say the difference between making just a couple of products and making bazillions of products. Yeah. And the implications of that. And I guess what, what we excelled at the time was being very specific in these mature industries that we're talking about. Toothpaste, laundry detergents, cough syrup, stuff like that. What are like remaining frustrations that still exist or new frustrations that have come into the mix and being then being able to answer them with things that are just simply commercially viable that you can run off your existing factories that are just make commercial sense. And it turned out that was a big gap, you could say, where many of these big industrial giants were looking up, or looking down into, you could say, and it was a fantastic journey. We, ended the business in 2019 when we sold it to Accenture that had grown to a team of 70. And, coming out of that. I had, time on my hands and, here's the thing. in that period would happen. I met countless, very interesting people. And, one in particular was, Luca Zerbini, who I met at his time in Amcor. Amcor is a big packaging, industrial, of course. and what we were trying to do with Amcor under his, let's say, leadership was to show. As a business to business supplier of packaging, if you understand the end consumer situation a little better, you can basically show how packaging can make a difference to your customers, the brand of goods in a, in ways they had never thought of. and in a way you could say what we've now tried to do, look at myself, what we're trying to do with the fund. Is to, add that, let's say, insight of, using, let's say, the infrastructure that exists within these huge companies, and to see if you can use that to scale sustainable solutions, much, you could say, much more effectively than trying to build everything from scratch. And, yeah, we started with that two years ago now. it's not been, an easy ride getting to our first close, but it's like we're within shouting distance. We did raise some capital and put some of our own money in, say ourselves, and we've started investing. We've done about six investments now. We've even managed to exit one already. And, yeah, they all fit the profile that they're in the sustainability domain, obviously. And I guess in a subset of that. In a consumer goods universe, and then within that, it's very much, yes, circularity focused and, yeah, there is so much to do there. It's pretty much incredible. Thank you.

Cory Connors: 3:37

That's great. I'd love to hear about, new, companies and investment groups that are supporting sustainable packaging and sustainability and circularity in general. can you tell us a little bit about where you live and, what it's like there? I'm excited to talk about this cause I'm heading there next week.

costas: 3:54

Yeah. So geographically. So the Netherlands. So you'll be spending most of your time below sea level. So that's just to mentally prepare yourself, which I can imagine is quite a stretch. So the Netherlands. yeah. So I have a long Greek name, but I'm actually Dutch. I've lived here almost all my life. what is interesting about the Netherlands is a, it's a country of trade, obviously it's a country where, we have, it's, this has been the case for like hundreds of years. but it's just a country where. This could say the first institutions were really set up as a society that have basically allowed us to become a very, organized, let's say little country. It's like a tiny speck really on the map in Europe. but because of the institutions that we've been nurturing here for like hundreds of years, The rule of law is very, say well sorted, which means doing business is very clear and transparent typically. and because we're at the sea, our ports, particularly the port in Notre Dame has become a huge, let's say, trading center for, for goods across the world, of course. So it's a very, say, nice little hub in Europe to, Basically get a taste almost of every other country in Europe fairly quickly. It's such an international little place.

Cory Connors: 5:05

That's a great way to put it. I've heard a lot of very good things about amsterdam and the netherlands. people have cautioned me that it will probably rain the whole time i'm there It's been raining the past

costas: 5:15

week. That's literally there was a little article, on the news just now Which is how to make the best of like the 20 minutes. It's not raining every day

Cory Connors: 5:22

i'm from portland oregon where it rains All the time too. So, I'm not concerned that much about that. I've got a jacket and, not worried about that, but let's, I guess we should get back to sustainable packaging here. how has sustainable packaging affected, what you're investing in? Are you finding sustainable packaging solutions?

costas: 5:41

Yeah. So it's funny cause it, When Luca and I, reconnected outside of our original, let's say, relationship as client and, and supplier, we stumbled into one which turned out to be the right, perfect profile for us as a business going forward. It was Pulpex who do paper based bottle, for liquids, beverages, et cetera. And here's the thing. I'm new to VC and in a way Luca has a bit more experience as in corporate venturing, but, we were I was naively surprised to see that this business, which, paper packaging is not new, of course, by any stretch, paper bottles is maybe a bit newer. but this business was basically creating a solution which you could with, relative ease use on an existing filling line. and. Are definitely my assumption was, obviously you would develop a new paper bottle such that you can fill it on an existing filling line and not demand a whole new, say, a line to be set up. But it turned out to be quite unique. and that for us, at least it was, so this is one worth putting our own cash in, literally went to the bank and got cash out. Put it into, into PulpX made a very nice return fairly quickly, but here's the interesting thing. And this is a little bit sinister, and I'm using that word on purpose about how the venture capital world works, because if you have a solution as a startup or scale up, which is. Basically just the product and the technology. And you say, I, you don't need to build a new factory. You don't need to build a new e commerce system. You don't need to build new distribution, all these other things. From a VC point of view, it's maybe not very exciting. Cause how's that ever going to give you a 50 time multiple? Sure. it isn't. that's the thing. so yeah, since we have, we've continued investing, maybe the two others to call out in the context of packaging to just given, given the topic of this podcast, one is. In a way, it's in an adjacent space, which is Gray Parrot, who basically have an AI based system, to support waste processing, but they, what they do with a very smart vision system is they literally recognize the packaging. So rather than let's say shining all kinds of types of light onto it and figuring out is this a HDP or LDP or any other kind of plastic, they just recognize, Hey, here's a little fragment of a Coke bottle and there's another fragment of a Fanta bottle. I know exactly what those are made of and it basically helps you sort. one of the things I'll be talking about very briefly as an example of, what I would almost call like the holy grail in, let's say sustainable innovation or sustainability oriented innovation is, the business, called Micfac that you just come onto the board. Also, it's a Swedish company that by no means is that a startup or a scale up in this business has been going for 10, 12 years now. and they basically create a solution which uses less energy, less material. So hey, sorry, what I should add, it's, they do ready meal, packaging. So on the chilled shelf, but less energy, less material. So that's better for planet right there, but on the demand side. They don't talk about necessarily that it's less waste, less whatever they say. the taste is much better because it's been heated less. Right. So, and then you see, you see where, at least in my point of view, the future of this in way, this industry and this topic is, which is as an, as a manufacturer of packaging or by that, any other product, get your act in order from the planet better for planet point of view. Right. While you're doing that, improve your product in a way that you have a whole range of other reasons why customers should be picking it. And in this case, if you're in food, just ensure it delivers the taste better at the end. That's all you need to do to get people excited. Right. Yeah.

Cory Connors: 9:09

said. the future is sustainable packaging will be an obvious. Choice you. It's a must. It's not like we're, it's not a selling feature anymore, which, which in my opinion will be great. if everything is sustainable and what we go back to the features and manages and benefits of the product itself. like you just said, let's make food that tastes really good. and then, oh yeah, it's also packaged sustainably as well. This is exactly how it should be. said. said.

costas: 9:40

We're in violent agreement on that one.

Cory Connors: 9:43

So you're, you're at home base for, packaging Europe, which is next week. very exciting. I'm heading there, with my wife early, and then we'll stay a few days after to experience your part of the country. What are you looking forward to at packaging Europe? Oh,

costas: 9:59

what I'm looking forward to, this is, This is where people come together who actually work in the packaging space and they actually make packaging and they actually sell packaging and they do actual stuff. Right. again, the world of VC and startups and scale ups, it's a world of investment vehicles. It's not necessarily the world of new companies and new technologies and just being able to, reconnect with what the industry is really working on. The real problems are. trust me, if you come from the circles I'm in, most of the time, this is a real sort of breath of fresh air. Right. and, I really enjoy it because I was there last year as well. I really enjoy just connecting with any of the packaging professionals. and yeah, I was also just happy to be surprised about. All the things that are going to be shown and talked about, et cetera. But it's, for me, the main thing is this is the real world. This is not hopes and dreams and new foils made of algae poop or something that is just up in the stratosphere. but you know what I'm talking about? It's just, there are so many dreamers out there coming into this area where. if you do God knows how many square kilometers of film every year, you need something which is a drop in solution because otherwise it's just not going to work. And yeah, those are hard to find. And when you find them, they're good, but I agree.

Cory Connors: 11:14

Yes, I'm meeting with some clients today about automation, and you're exactly right. They want to use equipment that can use new sustainable materials, but you're right. They also want to keep the equipment they have and insert sustainable options. Maybe a film with higher post consumer recycled material or something. A simple step that will make a big difference. Today, rather than waiting for, like you said, the unicorn that might not come to fruition. There's so much testing to be done.

costas: 11:48

I've, my whole professional life has been about innovation. and here's the thing, I actually hate new things and disruption. honestly, it's so overvalued. as you put it, small steps, smart steps, the right steps. Is really all you need, because otherwise you just won't survive. launching products is easy, keeping them in the market, that's what's hard. and that can only work if you're making the right amount of money on them, because you're solving the right problem.

Cory Connors: 12:12

And having the market respond and the consumers respond in a way that, that makes it so valuable that we can't go back to the old version again.

costas: 12:23

But here's the thing, that's what actual, say, a step change, literally. Is about is you elevate something to a space where you look back and think, I'm glad that's behind us because we're in a better place here. Yeah, but that's, but that simple truth is not one which is necessarily being lived by, in the domain of, let's say, innovation and doing new things. A lot of it is just new for new sake. Yeah,

Cory Connors: 12:47

said. I totally agree. It sounds like, And you'll be speaking there as well. Is that

costas: 12:52

right? Correct. Correct. Correct. So, so what I'll be speaking on the first day in the morning. one of the first ones, I think there are two stages of like the innovation stage. I will be, I will be better dressed for the occasion. Maybe let's start with that. but it's really cold in the house here, but I will be speaking, about a couple of things. but what it comes down to is that there is a win possible. which is yes, you can create something which is commercially sensible, you can make money as a business home. And it's better for planet. I'll be using the make back example also, I'll be showing some frameworks on how to, judge what is in front of you because some of these, let's say, new ideas can be very compelling at first glance, how do you quickly filter through some, just some sense checks as is it really as good as they say. Yeah. and I'm literally taking that straight from our, our selection guide at Natera, which, is. Proven pretty, pretty spot on so far. And again, it's not rocket science, but I hope it will be a safe people time and having to figure some of these out themselves,

Cory Connors: 13:53

I look forward to hearing you speak and you're right. This is something I deal with every day. As, at Aurora, we're trying to find new materials that we can offer to our clients that are actually more sustainable and actually going to do the job and actually still perform, and not be. So risky that they just fail, lots of testing, lots of lab work. we're launching our sustainable packaging lab here in a few weeks. So I'd love to invite you over to the USA to see that. And, it would be spectacular. Yeah. We'll talk about that later. Thank you. Yeah. This is a couple of years in the works. my boss, Chris Bradley, he's been working really hard on it and, we've all pitched in some. thank you, sir. how do people get in touch with you?

costas: 14:37

if you're coming to the conference, which I hope, the listeners to this postcat wills and just find me and tug my arm, say hello. the email is very simple. It's Costas, at Unaterra. vc, which will be all over the, materials, I'll share also at the conference and, yeah, looking forward to meeting like minded realists is probably a word to use here. Yeah. Looking forward to it.

Cory Connors: 15:00

said, sir, and thank you Aurora Packaging Solutions for sponsoring this podcast, and we'll see you next time.